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Welding question....

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Batmanjr, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    I have some stuff that I would like a guy at work to weld, it is two pieces of 1/4+ wall Dom tubing slid over each other for use as a tierod.... I asked if he would weld them and said no problem, do I have the numbers on the material.... I said No..... He has a veriety of sticks to use but has no idea which to use.... If it was just going to be needed as a tierod, I wouldn't probably care, but I plan on mounting the hydrolic ram to the outer sleeve so the end welds need to be good... I know the material is high strength, it makes that pretty twang sound when you hit it... What type of rod should I suggest he use? Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif
     
  2. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    I'll weld it with the mig. [​IMG]
     
  3. jjlaughner

    jjlaughner 3/4 ton status

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    If it wouldn't weaken it I would drill a few holes in the outside tube and weld it there also.
    I have no idea what stick you would use, I could do it with my mig /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I like that welding guy! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  4. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Does your mig get deeper penatration than your stick Billy?

    Thanks Jlaughner, but kindof hard to ship! Also, If I weld the outer sleeve to the inner sleeve, it won't bow like it should! The material does flex a little and the two pieces being able to slide over each other in a hard rock hit is crucial for it to be able to straighten back out! In other words, if I make the rod too thick on the outside and it bends, it won't bend back! Kindof like a solid bar! That's one of the reasons I went with two bars instead of one! THanks for the idea though!
     
  5. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif That is none of you business. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    I can make almost anything hold with the mig. Hell the whole cage was built with it so I must trust my life with it. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  6. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Alright! I'll let you make the call which tools you want to use on it when it arrives... Deal! /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif All I know is that it's definatley over kill! Just want it done right the first time and that's why my little 110v Mig won't be touching it! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. NITRO

    NITRO 1/2 ton status

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    ill weld a lot of things with mig...but when it comes to welding something like the T1 steel....i wont use n e thing except stick. ive had too many instances where the mig weld breaks bcuz it doesnt penetrate deep enuff.

    NITRO
     
  8. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    You can set everything up with the little mig with tack welds and bring it over so I can burn it in.
    As for welds breaking you can run a little more heat and slower wire feed I will be using 035 wire and it will hold just fine. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  9. jjlaughner

    jjlaughner 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If I weld the outer sleeve to the inner sleeve, it won't bow like it should! The material does flex a little and the two pieces being able to slide over each other in a hard rock hit is crucial for it to be able to straighten back out! In other words, if I make the rod too thick on the outside and it bends, it won't bend back! Kindof like a solid bar! That's one of the reasons I went with two bars instead of one! THanks for the idea though!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Intesting, post some pics when your done
    What are you welding then?

    Even if you dont weld it you would have to bow it like 6" in the middle to make it flex even a little bit at the end wouldn't you? I think I know what your getting at I just can't picture it /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  10. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'd trust my personal mig welds over my stick welds, but I am not bad with a MIG I am horrible with a stick /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  11. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'd trust my personal mig welds over my stick welds, but I am not bad with a MIG I am horrible with a stick welder /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  12. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    MIG will do T-1 just fine...but you likely need to pre-heat. Dual shield flux core is a better choice for that IMHO. Stick is gross, slow, and old school./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I'd use some flux core on that DOM, but I'm sure MIG will be fine too.

    Rene
     
  13. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    MIG will do T-1 just fine...but you likely need to pre-heat. Dual shield flux core is a better choice for that IMHO. Stick is gross, slow, and old school./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I'd use some flux core on that DOM, but I'm sure MIG will be fine too.

    Rene



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Gross, slow and old school is an understatement. You can do anything with a MIG welder that you can do with a stick welder- Faster, cleaner, there really is no reason to use a stick welder on anything that we do with our hobby.

    Some food for thought..
    Do ya'all know what the numbers that designate a welding rod mean? Take 6011 for example.
    The first two numbers, "60" is the rated tensil strength of the weld produced. 60,000 PSI. 7018= 70,000 PSI. 11018= 110,000 PSI.

    The second to last number indicates the position the rod is intended to be used in.
    1- all possition.
    2= flat and horizontal.
    3= flat only.

    The last number indicates weather AC or DC and polarity.
    0= DC+ (DC reverse or DCRP) electrode positive.
    1= AC or DC- (DC straight or DCSP) electrode negative.
    2= AC or DC-.
    3= AC, DC- or DC+.
    4= AC, DC- or DC+.
    5= DC+.
    6= AC or DC+.
    7= AC, DC- or DC+.
    8= AC, DC- or DC+.
    etc etc...

    Anyways, back to my original point about the first two numbers, the strength in PSI. The popular, widely used, solid MIGb wire is ER70S-6. Guess what the 70 stands for? 70,000lbs PSI. Which is more than enough for ANYTHING we do on these trucks. No need for any special rods, or alloys. No need to ponder and discuss as much as we all do on the welding thing. MIG it and forget it. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Now if you're doin chromo stuff, or any strange alloys, then this oviously doesn't apply. /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
     
  14. thefarside

    thefarside 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    MIG will do T-1 just fine...but you likely need to pre-heat. Dual shield flux core is a better choice for that IMHO. Stick is gross, slow, and old school./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I'd use some flux core on that DOM, but I'm sure MIG will be fine too.

    Rene



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Gross, slow and old school is an understatement. You can do anything with a MIG welder that you can do with a stick welder- Faster, cleaner, there really is no reason to use a stick welder on anything that we do with our hobby.

    Some food for thought..
    Do ya'all know what the numbers that designate a welding rod mean? Take 6011 for example.
    The first two numbers, "60" is the rated tensil strength of the weld produced. 60,000 PSI. 7018= 70,000 PSI. 11018= 110,000 PSI.

    The second to last number indicates the position the rod is intended to be used in.
    1- all possition.
    2= flat and horizontal.
    3= flat only.

    The last number indicates weather AC or DC and polarity.
    0= DC+ (DC reverse or DCRP) electrode positive.
    1= AC or DC- (DC straight or DCSP) electrode negative.
    2= AC or DC-.
    3= AC, DC- or DC+.
    4= AC, DC- or DC+.
    5= DC+.
    6= AC or DC+.
    7= AC, DC- or DC+.
    8= AC, DC- or DC+.
    etc etc...

    Anyways, back to my original point about the first two numbers, the strength in PSI. The popular, widely used, solid MIGb wire is ER70S-6. Guess what the 70 stands for? 70,000lbs PSI. Which is more than enough for ANYTHING we do on these trucks. No need for any special rods, or alloys. No need to ponder and discuss as much as we all do on the welding thing. MIG it and forget it. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Now if you're doin chromo stuff, or any strange alloys, then this oviously doesn't apply. /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Out of curiosity what is the advantage between the AC and DC types of welding? Why would you use one as opposed to the other baring what you said with the rod type?
     
  15. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Now we're getting somewhere! That really helps.... Thanks guys! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  16. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You can do anything with a MIG welder that you can do with a stick welder-

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wouldn't agree with this statement. Stick is definitely more versatile on what you can weld. Cast Iron, Cast Steel, Mild Steel, Aluminum, etc... the list goes on and on with what you can weld with an ARC welder and the right electrode/polarity.

    MIG isn't exactly high tech either. Developed in the early 60's if my History Channel memory serves. MIG is a buttload easier to learn with tho. I've used plenty of stick and once you get used to using it, you can weld up much stronger welds as well as prettier beads. Just gotta get the flux off after you are done.

    There is a reason shipyards use ARC welders. Not only are they cheaper to own/maintain, but the welds they produce and the penetration given are far superior.

    Just my 2 cents on the subject.
     
  17. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    The reason a shipyard and a few other places use stick machines is logistical more than anything. It's hard to wheel a MIG machine into the areas they need to weld in. Stick machine...just hook up more cable and drag it to where you need to be.

    Flux Core digs harder than stick and is 4 times as fast.

    Don't forget environmental type reasons, many outdoor applications are too windy for any type of MIG. MIG's one drawback is that it is mostly suited to a shop environment.

    Location, machine location versus work location, and wind don't really apply to what we're talking about.

    MIG can be used for Aluminum, Stainless, mild etc etc etc just like stick. Just like stick you use a different 'electrode'.

    Stick was developed in the early 20's IIRC, which is why I call it 'old school' in comparison to MIG. Stick does have it's place, but superiority to MIG isn't a strong argument. I will say operator skill plays a big role though.

    If you like really pretty looking welds try out some E71-M dual shield flux core with a CO2 shield. It's a Lincoln wire...

    rene
     
  18. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    I totally agree. One thing I hate most about my Miller 210 MIG is when its a windy day out, I am more or less stopped in my tracks. I can try to turn up the flow rate a bit and put some plywood up to block the wind, which helps a lot. But ideally I bust out a roll of flux core wire and it solves my issues.

    But then again you get into the ease of setup issues there. It's a lot easier to swap in a new electrode on an ARC machine than it is to swap out the wire on a wire fed machine.

    Either way, Both processes have their place. I won't argue that point. I just didn't agree with the above statement that MIG can do everything ARC can, which isn't the case, and visa versa.
     
  19. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I just didn't agree with the above statement that MIG can do everything ARC can, which isn't the case, and visa versa.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Waxer.....You didn't quote the entire line I wrote...

    [ QUOTE ]
    You can do anything with a MIG welder that you can do with a stick welder- Faster, cleaner, there really is no reason to use a stick welder on anything that we do with our hobby.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I made sure to say that, just cause I knew someone would say the same things you have said. As far as this discussion goes, my statement is true. I've been doin this for a loooong time, I know that stick welders have their place. I really don't think that place involves the things we do on our trucks. "Gross, slow and old school".

    And like Rene said, You can buy different wire to weld all the same materials that you can weld with a stick welder. Want to weld stainless? Go get soem stainless wire and a bottle of Argon. (I think...Rene?) Aluminum? Same thing. Cast stuff? Same thing.
     
  20. Burt4x4

    Burt4x4 3/4 ton status

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    First off I am a total rookie welder

    I have a Lincoln 225 AC/DC Stick Welder. I have never MIG welded before.
    I have found that DC welding is a bit cleaner(still makes a mess/spater)
    I would use 1/8" 7018 rod on a DC setting.
    Again I am no pro by far and do Not have much experiance.
    I made a tire/bumper carrier recently with my stick welder and well it is still holding
     

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