Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

What front drive line are you running with 6"+ lift

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by fortcollinsram, Dec 21, 2006.

  1. fortcollinsram

    fortcollinsram 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Posts:
    2,261
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO
    My k5 has ~6" of lift and a 465/205 and the front driveline I had mad for it has always been in issue...It is at its MAX axle with the truck sitting level and when I go wheeling an droop my right front tire, it binds bad and makes the most obnoxious noise... I have already pulled it apart and hit it with a grinder to try to make it free up but it made minimal improvement...

    I don't really want to spend the $$$ to get a custom high angle deal from HAD...
    Is there anyone running around with a front driveline operating at a high angle that is made from STOCK Spicer or Neapco parts?

    My driveline is a Double Cardan joint and had the 4-bolt saginaw flange at the t-case. The joints in the DC are just 1310's I beleive...

    Would making this same driveline with 1350's in the CV free it up some and allow it to opperate at the steep angle? It would obvisously be stronger (which is the other gripe about mine b/c it is the weak link in my drivetrain) Thanks for the input...

    Chris
     
  2. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Posts:
    7,324
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA
    All the parts that compromise a HAD shaft (minus the 42*cv) are "stock" on something. Nothin special about them. Find the part numbers you need, order them from neapco or spicer, and put it together yourself. The hard parts are fairly inexpensive.:wink1:

    This is my front shaft-
    [​IMG]

    Built it out of used stuff when I worked for HAD. 1350 CV at the 208, and just a stock Spicer Life series 1310 at the axle. My truck is only lifted about 3-4 inches though. 465/208 and a healthy big block.

    Keep in mind that a modded 1350 CV will run to about 32-34 degrees. Quite a bit of clearanceing goin on to get that much. Stock, they max out at 28 degrees.
     
  3. fortcollinsram

    fortcollinsram 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Posts:
    2,261
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO
    so a stock 1350 CV head assembly will max out at 28 degrees, right? What does a stock, 1310 assembly max out at then? By the sounds of it I may want to get a 1350 head assembly and clearance it out a bit...sound about right??


    thanks for the input man...I appreciate it
     
  4. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Posts:
    12,351
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    I don't think you'll get as much angle with 1350. IIRC the 1310 and 1350 have the same cross size, but the 1350 has bigger caps. That creates less clearance.

    [​IMG]

    I don't know if the 1350 can be made to allow more angle than a 1310 in a CV situation though. I always figured it was the same problem either way.

    You may need something like this: http://www.4xshaft.com/Super-Flex.html Although I don't think they'll work in the CV, only at the axle.
     
  5. fortcollinsram

    fortcollinsram 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Posts:
    2,261
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO
    those are interesting...I am kinda lost now...I need to replace the joints in the shaft anyways so I am going to see if I can't clearance it anymore when it is apart...I know I need to replace the centering yoke anyhow...It is smoked...


    I picked up a new set of carbide burs that may be put to use trying to find 2 more degrees of flex...
     
  6. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Posts:
    7,324
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA
    You can get more angle out of a 1310 cv. Up to something around 36-37* IIRC. But you loose the strength over a 1350. Another option for you would be to use a Toyota shaft. You'd have to buy a flange for your diff and t-case, but you'd get waaaay more angle than any Spicer/Neapco stuff. Jesse ran one on the front of the blue HAD truck for alooooong time. (I worked for Jesse for awhile) His truck has a big ass nitrous powered 454 with a big ass cam. His front shaft had a static, at rest on flat ground angle of something rediculous like 35*. And that was just sitting still in the shop. The Toy stuff didn't even snort. Might wanna give him a call to atleast ask him about it. Or maybe he'll chime in here.

    And heres a few pictures for reference-

    From left to right- 1310/1330, 1350/1410, 1480
    [​IMG]

    1480
    [​IMG]

    1310, 1330, 1350, 1410, 1480
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. JEBSR

    JEBSR 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Posts:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    Why don't you shim the front axle back up to the proper or at least better angle? With that much lift you need to bring the pinion angle back up some. After my last lift I did fine when going at a constant speed but as soon as I would gas it the pinion would dive and bind up. In my case a 6* shim fixed my problem.
     
  8. blazinzuk

    blazinzuk Buzzbox voodoo Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Posts:
    17,412
    Likes Received:
    3,799
    Location:
    Afton / Star Valley Wyoming
    I am at nearly 10"s of lift and rarely bind my cv. My front axle is moved forward about 5"s so that helps some. I did some major clearancing on the cv. It is a 1310 cv. My truck flexes pretty well too.
     
  9. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,188
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    I'm running 1410/1410 front shaft with about 20" of slip. I have 6" alcan's up front, diff shimmed to get caster to 6 degrees. No bind at full droop, and full droop max's out the longest SS brakelines I could find for reference. I do run a doubler behind an NV4500 so my front shaft is pretty long. IIRC it's about 39" at rest.

    Rene
     
  10. muddybuddy

    muddybuddy 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2004
    Posts:
    8,933
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Fairfax Station VA
    joe, tell me more about the toyota shafts. i remember a thread that talked about the flanges on the axle, jesse makes them now right? how do they compare in strength to "normal" shafts? what kind of flange would you have to run on the t-case? like a normal 1310 or 1350, or a toy flange?
     
  11. TeK

    TeK 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Posts:
    170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Greenwood, IN
    Well I got a TH400/NP205 combo with 1410 joints(can't find anyone who makes 1480 yokes) with 1410s at the Rockwell axles(moved 1.5" forward and 1.5" back). I have double cv shafts from a local company. Never had a problem.
     
  12. Ronnie4wd

    Ronnie4wd 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Posts:
    749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stockholm.Sweden
    I think I have the same setup as you lengthwise and had the problems even with a shim but I got rid of the problems after grinding the CV .
    Have you grinded on all the places of the CV.
    It´s nogood to compare if you don´t have a 465 short adapter and 205 cause they are really short :wink1:
     
  13. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Posts:
    7,324
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA
    Toy shafts have flanges at both ends. Jesse makes a flange that bolts to a D60 pinion and accepts a Toy bolt pattern and pilot. Same as with the t-case. Jesse ran his Toy shaft on a 60 front with a 205 t-case. If you ran a 1310/1350 at your t-case you'd be loosing the benefits of the Toy CV. Toy CV's rival a 1350 cv in strength, and operate at waaaaay more angle.

    As for the strength of a flange.....Super Duties all have flanges at the axles. If they can put up with the torque of a built Power Stroke, I have confidence in them. Flanges are also easier to work with too. It's alot easier to remove 4 big as 3/8" bolts than 4 tiny nuts/washers and two u-bolts used on a yoke.
     
  14. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Posts:
    7,324
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA
  15. onetonbb74

    onetonbb74 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Posts:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Campbell, CA
    I had problems with a front driveline on my 400/203 combo. I removed it and when i did the doubler, i ordered new drivelines. The t/case was clocked up 2" and so my driveline was 36 1/8' long with a flange at the t/case and hi angle 1350 cv to a 1350 pinion yoke on the d60. I have a 6' lift as well. Wheeled on it hard on the last 2 trips and its perfect. Steve at south bay driveline hooks it up. He even showed up at my house to measure the shafts and angle.
     
  16. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,188
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Mine are both South Bay drivelines too.

    Rene
     
  17. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Posts:
    12,351
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Rene are you not running a CV then? I don't think there is a 1410 CV is there?

    Running the driveshaft without a CV and using Woods' superflex joint at each end might be an option. Don't know how well it would work if you don't have a doubler or moved the axle forward. Might give you some vibes without the CV. :dunno: It's one option I'm keeping on the table after installing 52s in the front.
     
  18. fortcollinsram

    fortcollinsram 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Posts:
    2,261
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Fort Collins, CO

    I agree b/c I NEVER had this problem with my 700r4/208...I need to measure the angle on the d-shaft and get a solid number but it is steep... I have buddies with the same front shaft from DTI (Drivetrain Industries) and more lift but they dont have any issues b/c they have longer tranny t-case combos Love some of the input here though...
    thanks
     
  19. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,188
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    No CV up front, no bind with stock 1410 joints either. I ran it up to 40 mph in the snow and there were no vibes. My 205 is clocked up three inches too...:D

    Rene
     

Share This Page