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what HEADS should I get?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 79Stepside, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. 79Stepside

    79Stepside Newbie

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    I'm building a 383ci stroker motor and I'm thinking about upgrading to aftermarket heads. Give me your opinions.....Airflow Research, World Products SR Torquer, Pro-Topline, Edelbrock, what is best? Aluminum or Cast Iron? Does anybody know where I can find some flow numbers for these heads? I found the flow numbers for the AFR heads and the SR Torquer heads. From those 2 flow numbers, the AFR heads are incredible.....according to my dyno software 433ft-lb Torque and 393HP! The SR Torquer only give me 415ft-lb, 321HP! I'm looking to stay in the 170-180cc intake runner range and 72-76cc combustion chamber range so that my compression stays around 9.25:1 compression. I don't think I want to go higher than that if I want to use pump gas. Oh, and my Cam will be a Crane Energizer 10005 (216 deg. duration; 112 lobe separation; .454 lift).
     
  2. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    If I had the money, I'd go with Dart Pro 1 aluminum heads.
     
  3. kgblazerfive

    kgblazerfive keymaster Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    With that low of HP you could run Vortec heads. What are you building it for? What kind of RPM are you going to turn? So many things factor into building a set of heads besides comp. Bigger combustion chamber with domed pistons will get you better flow and still have lower comp. More RPM = longer runners, alluminum vs. cast if you have the money and need to weigh less go with alluminum if not World makes a good cast head. A factory cast iron 202 with a good valve job and some pocket porting will make 400 horse all day long.
     
  4. 78Buford

    78Buford 1/2 ton status

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  5. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    I agree on the AFR's.

    There are a lot of guys on here with vortecs and most of them wish they went with something else.

    Buy the Darts or s/r's. An edelbrock vortec manifold is $300+ :deal: :yikes: . you could get the vortecs and get a stock manifold from a junkyard but you'd have to get it bored out and it wouldn't make nearly as much power as some of the after market ones. Once you factor in the vortec aftermarket manifold the price difference is only about 200 bucks between the vortecs and darts. Even less if you have an aftermarket sb manifold laying around.

    What dyno program are you using?
     
  6. 79Stepside

    79Stepside Newbie

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    Re:

    Well, cost is an issue. But, I want to make the most horsepower per dollar. I'll look into the Vortec heads a little more, but I think that would be a more expensive route because I'd have to buy a Vortec manifold then and besides that I already bought an Edelbrock Performer dual-plane manifold that's still in the box. I can get a set of W.P. SR Torquer (complete) with the "Pro Pack" (comes with valve springs, guideplate, 2.02/1.60 valves, screw in rocker arm studs, etc.) for about $700. The ARF heads are over $1,400. They come fully ported already.

    My RPM range will be off-idle to 5,000-5,500 RPM. My truck is going to be my dual purpose towing machine/hot rod. It has a 3 speed TH350 with 3.08 gears and 33in tires. I'm considering swapping in a 700r4, but haven't decided on that yet. I think it's going to cost more than I was expecting to beef up the 700r4. I can get a recently rebuilt pre-1986 700r4 for $150, but from an earlier post have found out that it won't last long.

    I'll look into the Dart heads also and post the results if I can find the flow numbers for the Dart and Vortec heads.

    The dyno software I am using is Dyno 2000.
     
  7. Mad-Dog

    Mad-Dog 1/2 ton status

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    First, check out his link to dyno proven recipes

    http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

    then check out the cylinder-head flow-bench database

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_head_chev/

    http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/t...1598/index.html

    Pro-Topline is outta business, for the better......

    Vortecs are at the bottom of the performance head line-up, you gotta buy the modified version......and you can do a lot better

    I don't buy anything edelbrock makes.....

    I have a pair of Dart 180's with 64cc chambers, 2.02/1.60 valves for sale.....
    I bought a pair of Pro-Comp Engineering aluminum heads with 195cc runners after deciding to run flat-tops in the stroker with 10.5:1 CR
    Don't bother searching for PCE heads, made in england, sold thru Larry's....

    AFR's are the cats meow and you will over-scavenge the exhaust port with a dual-pattern cam......

    When it comes to Cast-Iron there is only 1 head to choose from....DART
    The exhaust flows almost as well as the AFR's........

    World S/R's wont hold a candle to a set of DART's......

    9.25:1 works fine with Cast-Iron, small chambers allow higher compression with-out using a domed piston that disturbs the flame-front.
    piston to head clearance must be kept under .060" for quench, i prefer .035" myself on a high compression motor.

    A short-rod (5.7") stroker will only turn 5500 rpm w/o suddenly shortening it's life span so don't waste ur moola on a set of AFR's when the motor will never see the true potential of these heads.

    Cast-iron heads with 180cc intake runners, 64cc chambers covering dished pistons would fill the bill nicely with a single-pattern cam like the Comp "Magnum" series with 270 degrees advertised duration.
     
  8. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    Beings you are on a budget just stay away from alinimum heads. IMO they are a waste of money on a 4x4. Basicly all they do is save weight. In a 5000 Lb truck 40 or 50 lbs saved wont make a lick of diference. A iron head will make a little more power that an aluiminum head if both are exactly the same.
    I would just stick with a iron head
    Dart or World heads sould work good with your cam. Get Dart Iron Eagles if you have the $$$$ They dont cost much more than World SR torqers.
    Rember it aint just all about HP. Torque and where your engine builds it is a major factor in building an all around use truck. Specially if you plan on towing.

    Your cam is borderline for Vortecs. You may have to do a little work on the heads, springs, retainers, to make it work right with them. That will drive the price up even more.

    Heres a good site to look around in: http://www.strokerengine.com/strokerengines.html he has flow #s in the dyno room and info on a lot of diferent heads. plus info on strokers
     
  9. gonecheenin

    gonecheenin 1/2 ton status

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    You got my attention brother, i'm real curious how this project of yours is gonna turnout
    may just become the blueprint for my own truck's future engine build

    we're gonna have to talk

    as for the heads, i don't know much about the flow #'s and such, but in my opinion the characteristics of iron heads on an iron block would be something i would look for in a truck head

    running an aluminium head on a tow rig would concern me considering the temp' spikes and longetiveity you would expect from the engine's intended use
     
  10. blazinzuk

    blazinzuk Buzzbox voodoo Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I would get the AFRs if I could afford them second would be if you had a guy who can port heads locally get the World heads they seem to repsond to porting extremely well. Not anything fancy mind you just a pocket port and some undercut valves. I will agree though out of the box no mods iron heads the Darts are the way to go
     
  11. TWISTEDJACK

    TWISTEDJACK 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I run Dart Iron Eagles if you saw World Products Heads next to the Dart Heads you would see why I like Dart
     
  12. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    After i posted last night i went to ebay and searched for sbc heads.... found some 180cc darts BRAND NEW for 729 bucks plus 80 bucks shipping. I've said it before and i'll say it again... ebay can be your best friend or your worst enemy.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ategory=33617&item=7973134411&sspagename=WD1V

    He even offers to port them and send you a flow bench sheet for extra $$$.

    Also has a return policy at the bottom.
     
  13. Mad-Dog

    Mad-Dog 1/2 ton status

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    Ya think.....Scoggin Dickey sells them for $880 and includes screw-in studs, guide-plates, intake gaskets and head gaskets..E-bay..what a deal :haha:

    I could sell ya mine and most likely deliver them to a truck stop near Redding for $700 (negotiable)
     
  14. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I'm one of the ones that doesn't really think Vortecs are that great a head.

    If you are running a small cam, carbed motor, Vortecs are pretty hard to beat. You don't worry about the springs, you don't worry about expensive intake manifolds. (carbed vortec intakes are almost as cheap as earlier intakes) Since you already have one that wouldn't work with them, there's another $150 or so, right?

    From personal experience, any valve lift over .450" is pushing it. Some get away with more, on mine (I actually measured) I am under what is typically recommended for retainer to guide clearance. Since high RPM use isn't in the cards for me, I ran it as is.

    However...different cam, different springs. Vortec springs or machining to fit others is additional $$. Rocker arm stud broke, had to go with screw ins. Utilize self aligning rocker arms, not older cheaper ones. Need centerbolt valve covers.

    If I didn't get a screaming deal on my Vortecs (about $300/pr shipped, new) I'd be really mad about how much work I had to put into them, when an aftermarket head would have come complete and ready to run. $500+ shipping for stock Vortecs, then all the mods, or the $880 pre-modified pair, and aftermarket heads aren't that far off cost wise, and may be the same. Not getting gaskets at the price, but still close.
     
  15. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    I'll probably regret this later but.... who is scoggin dickey?
     
  16. blazd88

    blazd88 1/2 ton status

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    the largest GM performance company around. I only know cause I live in Lubbock TX, which is where they are located. I used to work for sunset racecraft here who builds all their aftermarket crate motors. Best stuff out there IMO. http://www.sunsetracecraft.com/ check them out.
     

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