Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

what type of fuel injection to use?

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by outlaw612, Apr 25, 2002.

  1. outlaw612

    outlaw612 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Posts:
    2,342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, Illinois
    wanting to convert my 86 k-10 to fuel injection. its got a 350, planning to go to 383 later. what does everyone recommend, considering price, difficulty of installation, advantages/disadvantages?


    TBI
    TPI
    Holley Pro-jection
    Holley 3Di
     
  2. BurbinOR

    BurbinOR 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Well, I'm biased. TPI is my choice, was my choice, would be my choice again.

    Advantages - best low end torque of them all. Factory parts. Hot rodable (is that a word? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif) Easy install. Looks trick.

    Disadvantages - no clue.
     
  3. outlaw612

    outlaw612 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Posts:
    2,342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, Illinois
    You said easy install, my only fear is the wiring. Did you use a factory harness or Painless? How expensive is it to install? Ive found a "complete" kit for $600 but Im not sure if anything is missing. How difficult is the wiring? One last question, will it bolt up to my heads, (early 80's I think) or will I have to get a different set of heads?

    Sorry for all the ?'s.

    Any adivce/info is greatly appreciated
     
  4. BurbinOR

    BurbinOR 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    I used Painless - plug and play. I've read some negative comments about Painless but I have NO complaints. Everything is marked and clearly marked. Good connectors.

    The wiring is simply a take your time and think it out deal. You figure where you want the computer (put mine behind the glove box door up on the heater box), and then run the wiring in a manner to eliminate chafing/heating/burning.

    Your heads it will NOT bolt up to - the later TPI (post 87) only bolts up directly to the post 87 heads for the bolt pattern. The early TPI will bolt up but it's more common to get later year stuff.

    There are plenty of things to consider. Thinking it through now and researching it now is the best advice I can give you. For instance, VSS is often bypassed.............I did it at first.............Nonesuch did it and is still bypassed..........I put a VSS in from www.jagsthatrun.com and am happy I did it...........but it doesn't HAVE to be used. Just a good idea. to do it. Fuel pumps/lines are another issue. I can help you, as can other guys here that have done it.

    Read all you can on www.thirdgen.org , www.tpis.com , www.jagsthatrun.com , www.fuelinjection.com , www.howell-efi.com , etc. and keep asking us questions here. Very glad to help.

    The end result is well worth the learning curve. I was very intimidated at first...............but no more.
     
  5. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Posts:
    1,467
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin(Leander), TX
    I concur with BlazzinOR's replies. TBI is not going to get you what you are looking for as easily as TPI. I bought a pre 87 set up and converted it to a post 87 setup with no problems at all. As stated above, do lots of research and ask lots of questions. If I had it to do all over again, I would have bought just the plenum, throttle body, fuel rails, and manifold. Those are the only parts I used in my conversion. Every other single part on my system I replaced with new. Its not a very hard swap and once tuned right, you will be grinning ear to ear!
    It will also be very easy to modify TPI to work with your 383 once you are ready for it. If you chose to do TPI you should be able to slap some bigger injectors in, a new chip to your specs, and with a little porting and be ready to run. I am sure I left stuff out but as said earlier, ask any questions you may have and answers you shall recieve.
    Justin
     
  6. outlaw612

    outlaw612 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Posts:
    2,342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, Illinois
    Does $600 sound like a good price for the harness, all sensors, all bolts, upper and lower intake, runners, TB, distibutor, fuel rails, Computer, manifolds, fuel pump/sender assy, radiator & electric fan? What is missing if any thing.

    The system is off a 87 Trans AM is this a good system to use?(As compared to camaro or vette tpi?)

    What heads would I need to run? Vortec or what?

    Thanks again.

    BTW, Im gonna ordered a couple of books on installing and tuning TPI so hopefull those will help.
     
  7. BurbinOR

    BurbinOR 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Yes, that's a good price. Offer him lower and see what you can get it for. The radiator will not help you but you can use the electric fan - I used the factory '90 IROC fan on my truck, just mounted it inside my shroud.

    The '87 TPI is MAF (mass air flow). Nothing wrong with MAF, they are reputed to be easier to get away with a more radical cam but only up to a certain HP range, at least with the factory MAF sensor. Replacement and aftermarket MAF sensors are spendy, on the order of $300ish. My system, and I believe Justin's, are Speed Density. Easy conversion from maf to sd (uses a manifold air pressure sensor instead) but maf is fine as is.

    Vortec heads can be run, but then you open up another can of worms...........you will need the new to market TPI vortec manifold..........about $450ish. You might want to get the heads off that TA if you can, otherwise ask the boys on thirdgen what you should use. I know little to nothing about heads so can't help ya there.

    The TPI setup you are getting is basically the same as a Camaro/IROC/Z28/Vette. Not much difference if any.

    Do a search on www.amazon.com for the TPI books, I have two but they're out on loan so I can't remember the names. Good luck, keep us posted, and keep asking questions..........
     
  8. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,982
    Likes Received:
    191
    Location:
    Roy WA
    I'm working on an '88 Camaro setup for my K5 right now. Started tearing into the wiring harness last night, culling things I don't need, like the starter wiring, AC, wiper motor, etc.

    There are *some* disadvantages to using a stock system, but its exactly what you expect from something that old...the locking clips on the connectors might break, the wire loom stuff is brittle, its a bit dirty, etc. But if you can get the entire setup for $600, I think you are doing pretty well. ($500 with fans would be real nice though : ) The connectors and loom of course are available, not a big deal to change those things out.

    A lot of it really depends on what YOU want to do with it. Do you want/need to pass emissions? Do you want to wring ALL the performance/mileage you can out of the motor? If so, I think the stock system is the way to go. I won't argue against new being "easier" in the clean/not brittle, less wiring aspect, but still AFAIK, the Painless setups have a lot of "optional" things (like VSS, EGR, some other emissions wiring apparently) that really shouldn't be optional. As has been stated, it will run, it just won't run to the utmost of its ability, which to me, is the only reason to run injection.

    Case in point, guy running a mid 80's Monte Carlo with a Painless setup. He's getting just over 12MPG if he's LUCKY with a setup that should be doing MUCH better. I'm not bashing Painless, because he did a fair job defending them, its just that his setup isn't working the way a properly working GM one would have. There are other factors (PROM, etc) that play into this, but the factory system is proven, and if you get it off a running vehicle, you KNOW it will work when you swap it. My thinking is, if you are afraid of wiring, or think you can really simplify TPI without loosing performance stay carbed. You can get good performance out of a carb, but the driveability and versatility IMO just isn't there, and never will be, compared to a proper TPI system.

    Things like the tank, sender, radiator are not going to work for your truck from an F-body, but thats easily remedied. Take an '87-91 C/K truck being parted out, grab the sender and the fuel lines. The tank baffle is more than likely going to be shot, but you can buy new tanks with steel baffles for about $120-160. The camaro fuel pump will work on the truck sender, just need to decide if you want a new one there or not.

    Some Vortec heads with the Vortec TPI intake might be a nice setup on either of your motors. A necessary expense lol.
     
  9. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Posts:
    1,467
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin(Leander), TX
    actually I am running the MAF system. Originally purchased everything off of a 85 Iroc Camaro. I then upgraded the wiring harness and ECM to the 160 baud units used on the later MAF systems. My system is in concurance with GM's specs on 89 model MAF systems used on firebirds and camaros.

    $600 sounds like a great deal to me but look over the harness very well and make sure to trace all the wires that pertain to the TPI system. They need to be in good condition without any splices and still pliable (flexy) to get you good performance. A worn out harness will not supply or send the proper signlas effieciently to the components in the system and therefore it will run poorly. You can, if you are good at electrical soldering or want to learn, rebuild the harness.

    Other items to consider are:
    - if using the stock injectors from the used system, having them professionly cleaned.
    - replacing all the sensors in the system (not too expensive but will ensure a properly running system once tuned)
    - routing fuel lines
    - stock engine accessory interfierance (a/c will most likely be in the way of fuel lines, alternator will in the way of heater lines)
    - radiator hose adapting ( if you are getting the donor cars radiator, you can have a shop braze the intake fitting onto your radiator and use a camaro hose)
    - Oxygen sensor bung (options: get some headers and weld one in, buy some headers with one already there, get some manifolds from a TBI truck)
    - wiring power (relays, fuses, routing)

    Again I am sure i left some stuff out but ask more questions and you will get the rest of the answers.
    Justin
     
  10. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Posts:
    8,946
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Northeast Nevada
    You asked for other options and said you wanted something easy to hook up. Why not go with TBI.
    These guys <a target="_blank" href=http://www.turbocity.com/EfiMainPage.htm>Turbocity.com</a> Have a good system.
    Its all GM and and pretty easy to wire in and you can get parts fo it almost anywhwere.
    All you need besides the TBI system is a GM TBI distributor which they also sell, and to plumb in the return line to the tank.
    They also sell high flow TBs, injectors, and other performance TBI parts and can burn a custom chip for your engine.
    Although a TBI system may not be the best around for building serious power, They do work very well in a truck and are very reliable.
     
  11. outlaw612

    outlaw612 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Posts:
    2,342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Springfield, Illinois
    Is there any difference in the 305 and 350 tpi systems?(other than injector size? Would it be feasible to get a 305 camaro and use the tpi on my 350 or 383? Or is it alot more work and money?
     
  12. BurbinOR

    BurbinOR 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    5,829
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    No diff.
     

Share This Page