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What's Wrong?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by TSGB, May 9, 2005.

  1. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    With public schools?

    Personally, I see it largely being horrible, HORRIBLE budgeting, and underskilled teachers. Don't forget of course, vocational funding.

    What do you remember/think of as problems with public schools?
     
  2. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    Well one of the things I can see is the higher ups in the district get paid way to much and have way to many frills.

    The head of Phoenix Union High school district gets paid something like 150+ thousand a year. He has his own floor of a pretty good size office building. He doesn't have to pay for a car or dry cleaning. And for the topper of it all he eats his lunch off of rather expensive China and is of 5 star restaurant quality food.

    There's more perks but those are the ones that stick in my mind.
     
  3. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I know in my area there is one BIG problem. The buildings themselves. They just built a new high school. It is an architectural masterpiece.
    http://www.bciu.k12.pa.us/pennridge/phs/phs.htm

    Why? I have no idea. Do kids learn better in a place that costs 20 million more?? I REALLY do not see what is wrong with a bunch of those trailers they use when schools are under construction. Put a bunch of those around and maybe a building linking them and hey you have a cheap learning center, now you can spend that 20 million on books or better computers. They built a new middle school a few years back. As soon as they were done they were talking about an addition because it was almost at capacity already. They don't plan well enough for the growth of students. Oh and we are getting a swimming pool now. Cause we were really hurting for one. The YMCA was getting angry that our swim team went there I guess :surepal:
     
  4. tucsonkfive

    tucsonkfive 1/2 ton status

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    I couldn't complain about public schools when I grew up so long ago in Idaho. I'm sure that some things could of been better but nothing real noticible. These days I think it comes down to mismanagement and not holding staff (teachers and principals) accountible. Money is going to the wrong places and as result supplies, students per teacher, and underachieving teachers all become issues. :mad: Not looking forward to my son starting kindergarden in two years after hearing the stories of my friends kids. Will use private school if I have to.
     
  5. mikey_d05

    mikey_d05 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Well, as a current student at a public high school this is what I see:

    #1. To keep from offending anyone, smart kids and dumb kids are lumped in the same classes quite a bit. To make matters worse, the teachers usually put one smart kid in each group with the dumb kids. This is frustrating as hell because the smart one ends up doing the work because the others don't care and if you refuse to do the work, it just won't get done and you'll get a bad grade.

    #2. Nobody looks to the future anymore. There are a lot of kids who don't care about what happens after tomorrow. They don't care about their grades or anybody else in the room who wants to learn. They're a disruption and screw up entire classes sometimes.

    #3. Lethargic teachers. There are quite a few teachers I can think of off the top of my head that are so lazy it makes me want to puke. They don't care whether you learn or not, they're just there for the paychecks and figure they might as well fill in the day with crap.

    #4. Stupid teachers. I think that in some states, there's so much fluff in the education area, that teachers can work their way through the ranks without ever really knowing anything about teaching. Last year when I still took high school classes, I would frequently get into arguments (more like intellectual debates) with teachers and win. I'm not a genius by any means, I just can't stand being fed inaccurate information when I know better and my classmates don't and swallow it. All of my former teachers thought I was a smartass because of this but I think a lot of you would do the same.

    #5. Counselors discouraging kids to take higher-ed classes. Minnesota has a great program that allows me to take college classes. I did this half-time last year and full time this year. Unfortunately I had to practically threaten my guidance counselor to let me do it. Mind you I have a GPA of 3.8 and am in the top 10% of my class. All of the counselors at our school try to discourage students from taking higher-ed courses. The school loses funding since my butt isn't sitting in one of their chairs, and they really hate that.

    #6. Lack of discipline. I'm a firm believer that sometimes you've just gotta smack someone to get the point across. I had a teacher freshman year who slammed a kid up against a locker (for very good reasons) and he was fired at the end of the year. The kid never lipped off in class again and it was a much more pleasant atmosphere. That's how everything is now days. No physical contact, no verbal attacks, nothing. I'm sorry, but I would rather be in a school where the teachers have the discretion to do such things. I know there are horror stories related to it but I think some people don't realize how much a lot of kids dread going to class every day because of one person.

    #7. Lack of parental control. One of the reasons I do well in school is that if I started getting D's, I'd get ripped a new one. This isn't so much true anymore as it was a few years ago, but it started a precedent. A lot of kids I see that are screwed up or just plain morons, their parents could care less about their grades, this kinda goes back to #2, the parents don't look out for their kids and their future, and just figure everything will work itself out. Sometimes when you love someone you've just gotta kick them in the ass, and I almost never see that anymore.

    Overall, I'd say that high school is one of the dumbest periods in life. I took advantage of Minnesota's program to get the hell out and I'm EXTREMELY glad I did. Every time I have to go back to do some paperwork or something I'm reminded of why I got out and how happy I am about it. I have two finals next week and then as soon as my transcript from the local university comes through, I graduate.

    PS - I apologize for the huge post, but this is a current and large issue to me, and I feel very strongly about it.
     
  6. TDAWG1

    TDAWG1 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    lettin off a lil steam.

    They are building a school here in Texas a high school that is 140 million dollars. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Oh wait who can afford that kind of tabaca. The problem here and it is going on back home in Grand Junction Colorado, is this No child left behind thing. Here in Texas I am a behavior unit Teacher so I see it first hand. The Idea is great the system is all wrong though. The idea is to make it so all kids get an education even the bad kids.
    So what they did was put the bad kids in thier own class room and labled them Emotionally disterbed. Which means you take a kid that is like I was... ok am. (a class clown) you stick him in his own classroom with other class clowns and some future americas top ten most wanted kids. Then the idea is to teach behavior first education second; yet these same kids that are in the eighth grade and can't evan recognize letters in the alphabet. Are supposed to take the same state testing as the regular students, are graded on the same scale and if they fail then the teacher is fired or at least repremanded.
    Part two is to teach disapline, but you are not, in theroy; aloud to disapline them. Only offer rewards for them following the procedures you set forth in the classroom. ie if the student is supposed to go to the chill room (time out) when they get mad you give them a "re-enforcer" even if they thow a desk and smack another kid or flick a buger on there way. You ignore the bad behavior and regognize the good. You would say, " it pleases me very much that you chose to go to the chill room (which by the way is equiped with toys and music and stuffed animals) maybe next time you could do it without throwing a desk.
    It makes me sick! because in my mind I have an Idea of how disapline should go and I am confused as to which is more importantthe behavior or the education. In my day class of '95 Palisade Bulldogs. We were sent to inschool suspension and or after school suspension there were consequences for your actions. I once tore a film projector apart and I had to work after school for three months to pay off the $3000.00 worth of damage, Now we simply bill the parent that most of them can't afford to pay. I believe it all started when that kid sued his parents. Now we have no authority, give the control back to the educators and the parents.
    My idea is bring back the spanking, punish those who abuse it. Make the behavior the first priority in these ED children even if you have to hold them back in school. Now we teach them responsability by punishing those around them (ie the child is seeking attention by his or her peers and teacher, you stop class to take care of the problem which takes away from student learning. All focus is on that student Now a half hour out of a 50 minute class is gone. Then if any damage happened the parent or guardian pays the price. No responsability to the child. So make the child responsible for his actions, send the child to the office and let the right people handle it. Put a floater in the school one who can walk the campus and pop in and out of classrooms, and be there when a princapal is tied up. some one who is always in control and has authority to get that wooden kricket paddle with holes drilled in it and lay the wood.
    My plan needs revising and this is only a small peice of my plan. and of what the problems are with the education system. This was a great post thank you for letting me vent. as you can clearly see I had nothing to say.
    God bless and good luck to all you in the education field and to parents. Oh and on top of all this they cut Cheerleading at the JR high school so now when the teen pregnancy rate goes up they will say why???????
    Sorry for my miss spelled words I am no scholar.
     
  7. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Too much PC crap, I walked into high school with stupid stereotypes of races in my head, I walked out with proof :mad:
     
  8. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Too many liberals with too much power :D
     
  9. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    I think Mikey took the words straight out of my head. I had a history teacher who should not have been there. Just about incompetent. I taught the class more than he did.

    You guys know anything about the WASL (Washington Assessment of Student Learning)? It's not multiple choice. You're given problems, and are supposed to solve them and show your work, then explain in writing how you came to that conclusion. Well, it's been run at grades 4, 7, and 10 for the last few years, and was designed to evaluate student learning (read: teachers' ability to educate). For this year's freshmen, it is a REQUIREMENT to graduate. You fail, you get one or two retries before senior year to pass it. You don't pass, you don't graduate. One test is going to be given this power.
    Opinions about this test is split about 50/50 within the state, but the powers that be say that it's a good thing, that it pushes students. What has actually happened is a complete curriculum change, to teach students how to pass this one test. Not life skills, not vocational skills, but writing, science, mathematics, reading, and (one other that doesn't come to mind). The math portion actually had a question where you had to graph a goldfish population.


    You know what? Teach me how to hold an intelligent conversation. Great. But more importantly:

    Teach me something that will get me a job.

    In grade school they always talk about getting you ready for the next grade. Then junior high. Then high school. Then college (not everyone can attend). Then what? It's still hit and miss983174097460y5p98udhlfkjhao97bclk.

    Sorry. Rambled.
     
  10. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    In the smaller communities, I think the biggest problem is funding, and allocation of funds. Our school district hired a new schools super last summer. After about 2 weeks, he quit cause he could not afford to buy a house here . I understand people on fixed incomes not wanting to pay out more for education. The armed forces pretty much get all the money they want, so why is education always begging for money? Discipline in schools also is sadly lacking. We intrust our children to the school system, but withhold the authority to teach our children. If little Johnny is disrupting the class and keeping the others from learning, then little Johnny needs some behavior modification instruction, not a friggin timeout where he can ignore schoolwork and goof off. I remember not too many years ago, my kids bringing home a permission slip for corporal punishment. I said HELL YES!!!, as often as needed.
     
  11. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Mikey, you hit the nail on the head brother.

    I am the only one in my immediate family who is not a teacher or administrator, my sister teaches 3rd grade (Texas public school), my mom for the University of Texas and my dad is an assistant principal for a North Carolina public school, and many other cousins, aunts, uncles etc.


    The #1 problem is the watering down of excellence, there are no dumb kids and smart kids anymore, "everyone is a winner!". Unfortunately this is not the case in the real world and these kids are in for a shock after they get out of school. People are not all intellectually equal nor were they meant to be, when you take away the marks of excellence the truly gifted have no impetus to succeed.

    I remember when I was in school I got ribbons for running races, spelling bees, etc. My dad saved every one of these, because they meant something. Now every kid gets a ribbon or a trophy and there are no losers, which only results in these kids being losers in real life because they don't grasp competition and consequences.

    The teachers are not urged to make their kids exceptional, just to fit that cookie cutter image the state has of what every student should be. I think teachers salaries should be based on the test scores of each of their annual classes, and they should be compensated (or punished) based on the performance of those students.

    The parents certainly don't help, it couldn't be their kid that's the problem child, oh no! it's the "system's" fault, poor little Johnny just cannot be an innate moron could he?



    Alright, I'm getting off on a tangent here, you get the picture.
     

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