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Wheel hop on high horsepower hill climbs

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by NOT4SHW, Dec 3, 2006.

  1. NOT4SHW

    NOT4SHW Guest

    Has anyone eliminated high horse power wheel hop in their leaf sprung K5?

    I'm not talking about wheel hop from a burnout or such I'm talking about something like what you see here in this video:

    http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/andywestfall/?action=view¤t=MorrisMountain.flv

    I've got a rear traction bar, decent shocks, etc but it's not on just my rig, mostly all leaf sprung rigs that I've seen have this issue when hard acceleration is required and especially when it's a steep hill climb. Most of my buddies have gone to rear coil springs and solved most of the problems, has anyone cured it without swapping over to coils?
     
  2. Confedneck79K30

    Confedneck79K30 3/4 ton status

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    that video looks a lot more like you hit a bump and it started to bounce and since you were in the throttle, every time it hit ground, it pulled forward and bounced again, what kind of traction bar setup do you have? lift blocks can be a contributing factor, as can old, soft springs...

    my 86k10 had a worn out stock small block and stock worn out spring, and would wheel hop non-stop, but my buddy had an 84 with 2" blocks in the back,and new stock springs and over 400hp and wouldnt wheel hop if you tried...
     
  3. NOT4SHW

    NOT4SHW Guest

    Traction bar is similar to skyjacker's 5th link they build for the jeeps, and there are no blocks at all and the jeep behind me has the same basic setup with the similar problems.
     
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    It looks more like an anti-squat problem than an axlewrap problem.

    The rear suspension wants to "stand up" under acceleration (too much anti-squat) then breaks traction, so the suspension collapses back down until it gets traction again....then starts standing up again..... that looks like what I'm seeing in the video.

    The problem on hill climbs is that whatever you have as an anti-squat value on level ground gets a lot worse (MORE antisquat) when you start climbing. Remember there is LESS weight pushing down on the rear springs when you are climbing a hill. The weight transfer is toward the rear bumper and is no longer pushing straight down on the springs. That allows the rear suspension to get taller since the springs are supporting less weight. Generally this changes your suspension geometry and adds even more anti-squat.

    My guess is that your buddies who have gone to coils have fixed the problem inadvertently because the link design used to support the coils has much better geometry and much lower antisquat designed into it.


    :usaflag:
     
  5. NOT4SHW

    NOT4SHW Guest

    Does it make since that the problem would be the same with or without the traction bar? I had the same problem before the 58" rear spring swap/traction bar, is there a solution you've found for leaf sprung suspensions with or without traction devices? I can build a 4 link suspension to function properly I would just like to have a leaf sprung suspension that does as well.
     
  6. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Do you have a photo of the traction bar you are using? I'm not familiar with the Jeep 5th Link you described.

    If it's what I think it is....it's not going to make any difference whether you have it installed or not, it's solving a different problem (the axlewrap). :thinking:
     
  7. resurrected_jimmy

    resurrected_jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    [FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is skyjacker's product write up on their website.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Increase the Traction and Keep the Articulation in your 1987-95 Jeep YJ Wrangler. Skyjacker's NEW 5th Link Traction Bar is the fix for unwanted suspension movement that causes axle-wrap. Axle-wrap relates to unwanted rear pinion changes that causes drivelines to bind-up, driveshafts to buckle and yokes to break.
    This Skyjacker® exclusive eliminates wheel hop and applies the torque where you want it! Adjustable for most lift heights, the 5th Link is a must for spring-over applications.
    [/FONT]




    yj-tractionbar.jpg
     
  8. NOT4SHW

    NOT4SHW Guest

    Very similar it would also look like the diy4x product, http://diy4x.com/images/antiwrap3.jpg
    except I used the BTF traction link brackets and welded them to the axle tube itself, I built the upper mount using a shackle and cj front frame shackle mount which I welded in as part of my transfer case mount/crossmember. The link itself for all practical purpose is identical to the skyjacker 5th link shown above.
     
  9. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    its not all that similar to the Wraptor, the Wraptor actually uses a shackle opposite the axle.
     
  10. JIM88K5

    JIM88K5 1/2 ton status

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    I think what Greg said is correct. But... In the video everyone coming up the hill is hopping and bouncing in the same place the same way. Short wheelbase rigs, big bouncy baloon tires and I bet the ruts or "steps" you guys are launching off are roughly spaced the same distance as your wheelbase. I am probably wrong but I think more rebound dampening and lower tire pressure may help dampen the pogo stick action.
     
  11. camok5

    camok5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    It looks like what Greg72 said is the problem, you have a anti-wrap set up and not so much a traction bar one. I have a similar setup and realize that it helps the axle keep from twisting but not from hopping. I also think that your springs could be part of the problem, when I went to custom Deaver Springs (10 leafs per pack) it helped because they are more of a progressive rate spring.
     
  12. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    Just curious about this... TTT for the day crew.
     
  13. blazd88

    blazd88 1/2 ton status

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    Leaf sprung vehicles will always be more suceptable(sp) to the "bouncyness" due to the fact that the spring is what holds the axle in its place. When using a spring to hold and axle in its place this actually allows the axle to move. Whether it be up and down or front to back or both it will be allowed due to spring flex as well and shackle movement. With a 3 or four link, the links control side to side and front to back only allowing up and down movement which is now controlled by this spring. This is another reason linked trucks dont normally see wheel hop.
     
  14. NOT4SHW

    NOT4SHW Guest

    Correct it is an anti-wrap bar, we run around 6 psi so lowering tire pressure isn't a solution. We now seem to all know the problem so has anyone fixed it totally. If you look at the video you'll see the last rig which has coilovers and 4 link suspension has no hop at all. So it's all suspension type so I'm looking to see if anyone has a solution or has had the same problem and solved it and how have they solved it?

    I do appreciate everyones info and I'm hoping we'll get a solution out of this thread that will help everyone in the long run, thanks for all your information.
     
  15. camok5

    camok5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Real traction bars would probably make a good difference because it will limit the axle to only move up and down. Also like I said before good progressive rate springs would help to control the up and down part of it.
     

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