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Who runs Chromos and CTM's/OX/and or Yukon joints in there D44?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by stallion85, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    Currently I have Warn Chromos with CTM's and an ARB in my D44. I run 35" MTR's and am seriously considering some 37" IROKS. I know these tires are alot heavier and a lot bigger than my actual 34" MTR's.

    With my ARB, I only turn it on when I need it. So there is less stress up front. I am not buying a D60 unless I can find that Diamond in the rough from some old farmer somewhere.

    Anyways, I feel pretty confident this combo will hold up, just want some others feedback who are running a similar combo.

    I wheel rocks only, no mud:D
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2005
  2. Chaddy

    Chaddy 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    In my old 44 I had a detroit, chromos, CTM's and 35's...........It was great until pritchett canyon..........CTM's were fine but a stub shaft broke and so did the hub. I have a 60 now after pooring $$ into a half ton:doah: .
     
  3. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    Wow! I have driven on my Chromos for two years now on the rocks and the only thing I have broken is the OX ujoint that was in the short side. I finally got that peice of junk out of there and I am putting a CTM in that side.

    My neighbor wheels with a 28 spline D44 Welded and 36" IROKS and hasen't broken in the last 5 wheelin trips with this setup.......I know I know it is only a matter of time, but I keep convincing myself I can get away with it. I am very careful with the front end when it is in the ARB is engaged. If the wheels are bound up, I try to back out with the front unlocked and try another line.

    I am pretty much set on doing it, Maybe a year down the road I can give an update:D
     
  4. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

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    Haven't run it yet but I picked up a deal on Warn alloy shaft set. CTM's on the way. Aussie Locker just came in a few days back.

    Guess it depends on what kind of deal you can find. A 60 was out of the question for me. I was able to put together the 44 package on the cheap -over time, so that made the difference.

    I expect to run 39's but we'll see.
     
  5. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

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    I do.... 1/2 tons till I die.... :D

    Marv
     
  6. Burt4x4

    Burt4x4 3/4 ton status

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    I run Warn CM shafts w/CTMs & a Power-Lok in my D44. I run 35" SSRs. I also use Warn Hub fuses and I have blown a fuse before but that is about it sence I got the CTMs in. Before the CTMs the regular Ujoint was my weak point now the fuses are and they only take a few minuts to swap so I like that to stay the weak point. I never went to D60 for the same reason..over time the D44 just keept getting upgraded every time I broke something...took 5yrs to get it to were it is now.
    I never plan to run anything bigger than a 35" tire so the D44 sould hold up fine for the type of wheeling I do...
     
  7. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    .....Oooops! :rotfl:
     
  8. Chaddy

    Chaddy 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    You must be rich.............
     
  9. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    Nah, he has a light weight custom buggy machine thingy majigger:D
     
  10. static-x

    static-x Newbie

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    I ran Warn shafts, CTMs and an ARB in my 44 with 38 inch swampers for three years at the Hammers and only broke a stub shaft once. But you gotta baby it.
     
  11. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    Sweet, I guess I will be a living testament to all D44 users. I only wheel once a month and my rig stays in the driveway in between.

    My bud just bought those new yukon u joints. They look pretty similar to the CTM. I had never even heard of them until a few weeks ago, there U joints that is........
     
  12. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    Found this on the net pretty good info on the product. Hey I guess I answered my own question.......
    [​IMG]
    ONE PAIR OF YUKON SUPER ALLOY U-JOINTS, GREASE AND GREASE GUN YUKON SUPER JOINT Hello, my name is Carl Jantz and I designed and tested the super joint. I’d just like to set the record strait for those who think the Yukon super joint is just a cheap copy of other extreme joints on the market today. I have been working on a better U-joint since I broke my 1st front axle U-joint in 1978. After trying every brand, I eventually used Spicer’s, but in the old bronco they were the 260x joints, eventually as tires got bigger and several U-joints later, I stumbled on the fact that some Dana 44s used 297x (now 760x) u-joints and bored out my axles to fit. Then of course the ears tore off or stretched, so I built them up with a stick welder and 7018 welding rod. This worked very well for years, then along came still bigger tires and extreme 4 wheeling. I looked at modifying Dana 60 crosses to fit into the D44 caps around 1985 but decided no one would be willing to pay the price of buying 2 U-joints and then machine work to make them work, plus brass bushings that would eventually deform under the extreme pressure exerted upon them. (I didn’t know about beryllium bronze at that time). So I built my 1st Dana 60 5 lug front (1986) end and went happily 4 wheelin with 18/44’s for years. Then I went to the 1st NWRCA rock crawl at Vantage Washington and realized that there was a real need for a stronger joint and that a few people would be willing to pay for them. By this time I had worked a Boeing in R & D and had worked with Ionic coatings to drill through Titanium. I figured if It made the drills last significantly longer and since NASCAR was using Ionic coatings on the ring and pinions with great success to reduce friction that they might work on the u-joint crosses to avoid using a bearing. To learn more about Ionic coatings to go to www.Ionbond.com. (Note Ford Model A cars used no needle bearings in there U joints, just 140wt grease and hardened caps on hardened crosses, but then they were only dealing with 40 hp.) So I had a drill bushing company make some 4340 hardened bushings for me that press fit over the 297X crosses and fit into the caps to replace the needle bearings, and then set up a design of experiments to test various greases and Ionic coatings. I first used one grease with several coatings to find the best Ionic coating. Then I used one Ionic coating to test several greases. The last test went something like this. Installed 2 Joints into front end of diesel suburban with 4 kinds of greases, one type of grease in 2 caps. Then I pulled out the rear drive line and with my jeep on the trailer behind the suburban went on a 1200 mile road trip including Stevens pass, Snoqualmie pass and White Pass. (Getting started in front wheel drive was a pain sometimes) I then inspected the joints and found out two things. All of the greases were just fine, AND there was water in the joints. Now this was all highway driving in 70 plus weather except one ½ hour rain storm, I figured out that as the cold water sprayed up on the u-joints they cooled down creating an internal suction that pulled the water inside the joints, hence they now have pressurized grease reservoirs. So on to finally test the greases, I chained the rear end to a tree with the front end on dry pavement, and burned a set of tires to the cords in 45 minutes of smoke. All the greases failed except one, and it looked just like I had just assembled the joint and never tested it at all. The grease is an Aircraft spec anti-seize. All automotive greases, even the synthetics never even came close to this stuff. So with parameters set it was time to combine all factors and do a real world test. 16 joints were made from billet and tested at Cedar City in the April of 2002 at the U-roc crawl. There were no failures and, all of the rigs using the joints placed in the top ten at the event. So onto production, attaining a patent and working with a distributor, and now they are finally here. We really worked on having a product that gives superior performance at a reasonable price. If you would like to see a little more please visit my website for an install. www.jantz4x4.com IS THERE A WARANTEE? I will warrantee the U joints purchased from me for 1 year provided if one should break you pull the axle immediately and without cleaning anything send the entire assembly to me. I need to do a proper failure analysis, for further product improvements. Also most 44 front ends only have one steering stop on the front of each steering knuckle, thus with tie-rod flex or looseness and the Ackerman principle the opposite knuckle of where the steering stop is can actually steer a several degrees farther. So steering stops must be installed for both directions on each knuckle to prevent the ears of the axles from running into the yokes of the axles. Any binding of the ears will loosen up the ears and destroy the u-joint caps quickly, VOIDING A WARRANTEE. After installing stops, paint the axles and after a day 4wheelin verify that there are no rub marks in the yokes. I found that my stops were set for the max turning of a stock axle ears and when I put in aftermarket axles I was getting rubbing because the aftermarket axle has thicker ears, so I did a little grinding inside the yokes and redid my steering stops. Then I went 4wheeling again and to my surprise I still had rubbing in the yokes. What I found was that one of the stock steering stop bolts had bent sideways, allowing too much steering angle. So a little reinforcement was necessary. WHAT ABOUT LONGEVITY? I only have the data from the 1200 mile road test with no appreciable wear at this point. However I would like to present some anecdotal evidence. The Ford Model A had a drive line u-joint that did not have needle bearings, it just was bathed in 140W oil, and plenty of them are still running on the road today. The Steel, heat treatment, & surface finish on the super joint is far superior to the Model A’s. Combined with the superior lubrication supplied with the joint you will have many years of service life. Also at this point I have not needed to warrantee any joints so far. CAN I PUT THESE IN STOCK AXLES? Yes you can. But should you? I give the following guidelines: OK in stock axles for tires 35” and smaller (except Boggers). Because any larger tire will probably either break the stock axle or stretch the ears out around the u-joint cap and then the caps will be forced out and ruin both the axle and the U-joint. So if you want a set of U-joints in your trail rig or hunting rig that will last a life time go ahead and install them in your stock axles. However if you are running big tires in the rocks then you need to upgrade to alloy axles & alloy joints. 35” is a suggestion, there are degrees to everything, for example 36” swampers, stock axles, super joints and a posi front end will probably last for years with one drivers style of driving, However The same tire with a locker instead of a posi, and a lead foot, is just a matter of time before something gives way. HOW ARE THE CAPS MADE? The caps are made of 4340, and are coined, that is stamped from a flat sheet of stock in a cold forging process which makes the grain structure incredibly strong. The thickness in the end has been maximized to just clear the hole thru the spindle. WHAT IS THAT GOLD COLOR, ARE THEY BRASS PLATED? That is the Titanium Nitride coating. It is about 80 Rockwell C. In simple terms its a dry lubricate wear coating about 25% harder than a file. The U-joint crosses are forged out of 4340 and heat treated to 55 Rockwell C. That is just a little less hard than a file. I could have made them harder but then toughness would be sacrificed. OK here comes some tech! The question is what sees more stress, under a torque load, the Axle or the U-joint? We will look at calcs for a 30 spline axle, a stock dimensioned joint, and Super joint. According to the Moser Engineering web site; a 30 spline axle is rated at 6200 ft-lbs Torque. Using the following formulas from the machinery design handbook we can see what the stresses are in each component under the same load. To solve for stress in the axle use: Stress = (16T) ÷ (πD^3) where T = Torque is in inch-lbs & D is diameter in inches at 1.3 and (^3) means cubed multiplying 6200 x 12 to get inch lbs and solving for stress Axle stress = (16 x 6200 x 12) ÷ (π x 1.3 (3)) = 173,000psi. This is under the yield point of most high alloy steels and gives a margin of safety for fatigue and impact resistance over time. To solve for stress in the trunion you have to break the U-joint apart into its components and the best formula I’ve found for this is for a short shaft in bending. This formula combines both the shear forces and the bending stress which together are shown to be 30 percent more than either alone. Thus: Stress in trunion= (16F) ÷ (3 π D^2) Where D=the diameter of the trunion in inches; .773”stock and .937” Super And where F= shear force in lbs. So to find the Stress in the trunion we must 1st find the shear force. Since Torque is force multiplied by length, rearranging gives the formula F=T÷ L L is the distance from the center of the u-joint to the shear plane where they typically break. The super joint is wider than a stock joint in this critical dimension. In a Stock joint L= .680” but in a Super Joint L= .795” Also since the torque is transferred by 2 trunions then the torque load is only 3100 ft-lbs on each trunion. Also to keep units the same we must multiply 3100 ft-lbs x12 to make in-lbs. So the shear force each trunion sees is: F stock= T÷L =(3100 ft-lb x (12)) ÷ .680 = 54,700 lbs F Super = ÷L =(3100 ft-lb x (12)) ÷ .795 = 46,000 lbs Note that in the Super Joint, just moving the shear planes out .115” lessens the effective force required to transmit the same torque significantly since it acts through a longer lever arm. Equating to a 17% drop in stress. Knowing the forces acting on the trunions we can now calculate the stress in the shear plane of each U-joint. Trunion Stress Stock = (16F) ÷ (3 π D^2) = 16(54,700) ÷ 3 π (.773)^2= 155,000psi. Trunion Stress Super= 16(46,000) ÷ 3 π (.937)^ = 90,400 psi. Let’s review; under a 6200 ft-lb load Axle stress = 173,000psi Trunion stress stock = 155,000 psi (note this is less than axle stress) Trunion stress Super = 90,400 psi. So the next question is why do the stock joints break when they are stressed less than the axles, well the best formula I found after much research is that because of the angle at full steering the effective lever arm length to transfer the torque is reduced causing 30 % more stress on the trunion. So Stock trunion stress is really: 155,000 psi x 1.3 (adding 30 percent) = 201,500psi. And the Super joint stress is 90,400 psi x 1.3 = 117,500 psi. So lets compare, under the same 6200 ft-lb load the axle see’s 173,000 psi stress and the Super Joint see’s only 117,500 psi stress. The super Joint is made of 4340 tempered to a yield point of 200,000 psi. So under full load we are 59% under the yield point of the material, giving us a 41% safety factor. Some people have asked me why I didn’t go with 300M steel or Vasco Max. Both of these steels are stronger but also drive the price of materials and production higher. Other u-joints use 300M but a smaller crossectional diameter, and based on that diameter the material would have to be 40% stronger to withstand the same torque my joints will take. I don’t believe that 300M is 40% stronger than 4340 but it does have better fatigue and shock resistance than 4340 so only time will tell what will break when you put the pedal to the metal!
     
  13. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    The guy can do all this failure analysis formulae, but can't spell "warranty" correctly.
    I'm not sure what to think of that...:confused:

    **EDIT** OK, just checked out his site - seems to know what he's about. Nevermind.
     
  14. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    Well you spelled formula wrong:D

    J/k

    He sure as hell knows a lot more than I do:haha:
     
  15. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    Yah, far more than me, too. I just know how to spell stuff...:D
     
  16. shane74

    shane74 1/2 ton status

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    I am building a D44 right now using Yukon 4.88's, Yukon 4340 shafts, jantz joints, and an ARB. Everything will be cryo'd. I will be running hub fuses as the weak link. I will be running 38.5's or 40's.

    I have wheeled on a D44 for the past 7 years with no issues (w/ 38's). You do have to know the limitations of your rig and more importantly, your driving skill level. I have made it through places with stock 1/2 ton axles running 38's with no problems, and then see a built to the balls 1 ton come behind me and snap axle shafts like toothpicks. I will have far less into my D44 than the cost of a stock D60. If it ever gets to the point where they just don't hol dup anymore, then I'll switch. Till then, D44 all the way baby!
     
  17. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    Hmmmmm......................you can build a Dana 44 with all those goodies (assuming average retail price) for LESS than a typical stock Dana 60???? Are you pricing "stock" Dana 60's from Boyce Equipment or what?

    In regards to the post about the Jantz joints and the long drawn-out explanation the guy has, it's kinda' questionable, or maybe even somewhat funny. I work for a company that performs high level automotive testing for manufacturers, government, etc... and the test techniques described are pretty archaic, almost impossible to reliably duplicate, and have very little scientific or technical thought behind it. Not saying the product is not any good, just that the testing method is quite questionable.
     
  18. RootBreaker

    RootBreaker 3/4 ton status Premium Member

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    arent the cmt's the expensive ones???

    if so dayum yall got money!!!! :bow:

    I run brute force from autozone... $ 30 a piece for front d60.... Ill stick with that
     
  19. Burt4x4

    Burt4x4 3/4 ton status

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    hehehehe
    Ya well I guess time will tell if my 454 will create issues with my D44.
    Until then I am just gonna leave it the way it is:D
     
  20. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    I scored a hell of a deal a year and a half ago on my D44. I paid $400 for it and it came with the following: Rebuilt D44 all new seals, ball joints, ORD crossover steering, ARB locker, Warn Chromos, Long side has a CTM and the short side had an OX-ujoint (which I broke on hells revenge..actually it was the piece inside the body that broke and the ends walked out), and a Rock ring. The guy also threw in some extra parts for the ARB and a cross section of another CTM minus caps and stuff.

    The ring gear was chipped to hell so I put in a used Spicer ring and pinion for $125 and called it good. I just ordered the caps and stuff from ORD for $100.

    Total D44 investment $625:D

    That is half of what a junked D60 on ebay is going for:eek1:
     

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