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Who's converted to a remote solenoid?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by pvfjr, May 5, 2005.

  1. pvfjr

    pvfjr 1/2 ton status

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    Well, I'm having problems now. It's probably just the wiring, but I don't like how close the solenoid is to the headers anyway, and I know some people have done remote solenoids. I always figured that this solenoid was just a big switch, and only electrically connected to the starter just like any other. But looking in the manual, there's a pic of some type of mechanical linkage going from the plunger of the solenoid into the starter. They call it the "shift lever". What the heck is this, and what can I do with it? I can just go removing this one and putting a ford solenoid in there if this shift lever needs operated. And the count down to memorial day continues....help!
     
  2. leadfoot067

    leadfoot067 1/2 ton status

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  3. dontoe

    dontoe 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Did about five years ago on a K-10.................worked great and one of the first upgrades to my K-5 last year......easy and the cable going to the starter isn't carrying any current (isn't hot) unless you are turning the start switch! Makes it a one wire starter!
     
  4. pvfjr

    pvfjr 1/2 ton status

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    Well I've done a little research, and from what I can find, it looks like you have to leave the old one hooked up and use it with the new one. I guess that's why I couldn't figure out how to get rid of it without screwing things up.
     
  5. dontoe

    dontoe 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Yea, you make a jumper on the Chevy one and the Furd one activates it then!
     
  6. bigbadchev84

    bigbadchev84 1/2 ton status

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    sorry for asking a dumb question....why would you convert to a ford solenoid if you are still using the original solenoid....i too thought that was the purpose of changing to a ford solenoid is to eliminate the one on the starter
     
  7. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Eh, I don't see the real reason. I guess the no hot(voltage present) wire passed the headers, and the one wire thing. But in reality it makes your starter what a 4 wire starter? Jumper setup from motor feed to previous control circuit wire, Wire to remote relay, wire to solenoid from relay, and activation wire for remote relay. More places for something to go wrong, more chances for corrosion IMO. After really learning starters in depth I decided it best to get a mini gear reduction starter that bolts right in place of a standard starter. Just my opinion, I've never run the remote one, just seen plenty of Ford guys carrying spares cause they go through them like mad. And you couldn't possibly remove the starter mounted solenoid on a GM starter, would need a different type of starter and I can't say GM ever used that other type.

    I just see it as making an already good design into an overly complex one. And we all know what happens when things get complex(more parts = more things to go wrong).
     
  8. dontoe

    dontoe 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    To tired to do the wiring diagram right now...............I have photos somewhere.........but I hooked the wires from the Chevy solenoid to the Furd one. Hook the starter cable from the starter to the Furd solenoid..........run a short cable to the Furd solenoid from the battery and jumper the Chevy solenoid............Only new wire is the short battery cable. And I removed the fusible links and used 50 Amp C/B, but that is optional.

    Easy to jumper with a piece of metal and real easy to hook up a starter switch to turn the motor over when timing it etc..............
     
  9. pvfjr

    pvfjr 1/2 ton status

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    Well from my understanding, it bypasses all electrical switching of the solenoid, basically the solenoid function of it. The reason you have to leave it hooked up is because of the shift lever thing, which according to the manual, isn't technically part of the solenoid. I think it's the part that engages the starter, so GM considers it part of the starter rather than the solenoid. Hope that's right, and helps.
     
  10. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    If you study a GM starter, almost everything you just said is wrong. The solenoid acts as the relay and the part that makes it act like that is the part that also acts on the lever to engage the starter. I could get you a diagram and explain it if you wanted.
     
  11. pvfjr

    pvfjr 1/2 ton status

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    I realize that the shift lever and the contacts are mounted on the same plunger.
     
  12. nomadman

    nomadman 1/2 ton status

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    The solenoid on a GM starter has 2 functions. Basically it is a electromagnet that draws a plunger in when energized. This is connected to an arm that moves the starter gear into mesh with the flywheel. Tha other end of the plunger has a copper disc attached to it that - this is the important part - connects the battery cable to the starter ONLY after the starter gear is engaged with the flywheel. The problem is that the copper disc gets pitted and burnt after a while and this causes a high resistance path from the battery to the starter and that = poor starter performance. Using a Furd type solenoid only severs to relpace the copper disc 'switch' portion of the GM unit. The GM solenoid still has to be used to move the starter gear into mesh with the flywheel. The problem with using the Furd solenoid is that the starter can begin turning before the gears are meshed together. GM solenoids are cheap and easy to swap. I would suggest just replacing the GM one rather than using more pieces than necessary.
     
  13. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Eh yes and no. The plunger is part of the contact that shorts out the pull in windings, the hold in windings have nothing to do with the plunger or lever. You will still be activating the pull in windings every time you do this, and at the sametime you will be having the starter act exactly as it would if it were operating normally. I can't figure where the advantage is when I really think about it.
     
  14. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    its like...

    Nomadman had the best explanation about why you need to keep the OEM GM solenoid.....all the ford solenoid does is the same thing as you do when you "jump" the solenoid with a screwdriver--it eliminates all the voltage drop from the wire that activates the solenoid---the stock GM wiring goes from the battery,to the cab,to the ignition switch,then to the neutral safety switch,then to the solenoid--after going thru 12 feet of wire,your lucky to get 9 volts to the starter solenoid to activate it!--then add some heat from headers,corrosion in the wiring harness after it gets a few years old,thats when it wont start right!(if at all!)--

    But applying a full 12 volts from the battery directly to the solenoid,it is usually enough to eliminate any starting problems..thats all the ford solenoid does,help eliminate voltage drop caused by all the wire involved in the stock GM setup..I'm not sure if its worth it!--like Sled Dog said,the "Mini Starter" seems to be easier to install and solves all the problems..
     

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