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Why couldn't GM do like Ford did????

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Corey 78K5, Nov 13, 2004.

  1. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    Why is it that GM has like a millon ways of mounting a transfer case to a tranny and a millon spline counts /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    Today I sold a 78 Ford NP 205 to a friend of Mine. He has a 96 ZF 5 speed that We bolted it right up to. All that was needed was to make a small notch on the tailshaft for one of the shifter rails. There wasn't even an adapter between the tranny and transfer case. Ford got it right when they used 31 spline shafts and a round bolt patterns.
    Why don't We have it that easy /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  2. divorced

    divorced 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    There are a few things that ford did better. Extended cab trucks long before chevy, high pinion front axles, divorced t-cases...
     
  3. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    [ QUOTE ]
    There are a few things that ford did better. Extended cab trucks long before chevy, high pinion front axles, divorced t-cases...


    [/ QUOTE ]
    2005 trucks with Dana 50/60 strait front axels locking hubs and a t-case shifter on the floor /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  4. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    it is hard to find something that Ford didn't do better then chev
     
  5. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    Yeah. Having the distributor right on the front of the engine was pure genius..... /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  6. rhuarc31

    rhuarc31 Registered Member

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    On the other hand, chevy has a much better interchange of transmission to engine block mounting. Where as ford has all kinds of different mounting patterns. If either was perfect there wouldn't be so much using of ford parts in chevy's or vice versa.
     
  7. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    [ QUOTE ]
    If either was perfect there wouldn't be so much using of ford parts in chevy's or vice versa.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif Whaat he said!! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  8. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    what Chev parts do Ford guys use?

    I have never had a problem with a front mounted distributor
    seeing as Chev moved the distributor to the old flathead location, off the front of the cam, in the ?90s LT1? vettes and camaros SBC it cant be that bad of a location
    there are several kits to move the distributor on racing chevys to the front as well

    [​IMG]

    hey look it even uses a Ford style cap, better ignition is another Ford plus.
     
  9. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    Chev bellhousings are not much better
    you have multiple transmission index sizes to play with
    the sm420 uses the car size and the sm465 uses it's own unique size

    swapping parts on a chev isn't as rosy as most make it out to be
     
  10. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    You mean like change every part every year,so you need production dates and parts "codes" just to get the right parts??--Or use parts from other years that arent listed for the truck from the factory(I have seen several cases of this in new trucks in the 80's)-I'm not saying GM is perfect by any means,they did pull a few boners themselves--but at least you can bolt just about any GM motor in a chevy,even the ones that dont really belong there(like caddy,pontiac,olds,buick)with a minimum of butchery--ever try to put a motor in a ford??--they might all have the same transfer case setup,but ford motors have a bunch of different bell housings,flywheels,motor mounts,etc--I stick with GM when it comes to interchangeability!--plus I still have too many spare GM parts hanging aroung to go switching brands now!.I'd go to a Mopar truck over a ford,I always liked their engines and tranny's--I see too many broken late model fords in my friends shop with low milage,and big problems.Yesterday he was installing the second Heli-Coil in a 2001 V-10 Excursion's cylinder heads--seems they only have about 4 threads to hold the spark plugs in the heads(aluminum)and they usually come out with the spark plugs!-(they blew right out of the head while driving down the interstate!)-no factory recall yet,but ford has admitted they have been troublesome--things like that sour me from buying a ford. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif
     
  11. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    The one thing Chevy did better than Ford was the V8 engine.



    Chevy: Adjustable Rocker Arms

    Ford: Non-Adjustable

    Chevy: Water Pump connected directly to block with four bolts

    Ford: Connected to timing chain cover with 10 bolts (and it still leaks)

    Chevy: Oil pump connected to rear main cap with 9/16 diameter shaft

    Ford: Connected to timing chain cover with 3/8 diameter hex shaft

    Chevy: Tin steel pan Timing chain cover

    Ford: Cast iron timing chain cover
     
  12. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    actually, I have put a few different Ford motors in Ford cars and trucks.

    no different then working on a chev or dodge or pontiac ...
     
  13. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    which motor are you comparing??


    [ QUOTE ]
    The one thing Chevy did better than Ford was the V8 engine.



    Chevy: Adjustable Rocker Arms

    Ford: Non-Adjustable

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fords with solid lifter cams got adjustable rockers, hydraulics do not need adjustment.
    Some Fords even came with the superior shaft rocker system (only works cheaply on inferior inline valve wedge engines)

    [ QUOTE ]
    Chevy: Water Pump connected directly to block with four bolts

    Ford: Connected to timing chain cover with 10 bolts (and it still leaks)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    actually if you look at an FE engine that was designed back in the days when the Chev engine were developed you would see this is a fallicy as well

    [ QUOTE ]
    Chevy: Oil pump connected to rear main cap with 9/16 diameter shaft

    Ford: Connected to timing chain cover with 3/8 diameter hex shaft

    [/ QUOTE ]

    the maincap has got to be the stupidest placement of a pump.
    Fords are bolted to the block and the distributor on every Ford V8 that I am familiar with is in the block not the timing cover

    [ QUOTE ]
    Chevy: Tin steel pan Timing chain cover

    Ford: Cast iron timing chain cover

    [/ QUOTE ]

    again the old FE engines use the same system as the Chev more modern engine do not use the tin cover, just the old junk does
    in the case of the 351C the timing cover is plate steel and there is a raised section of block similar to the caddy motor.
    I have never seen a systemic leaky waterpump problem on any ford, or chev for that matter.

    Chev has had to create special motors that have never graced a production Chev to compete with Ford motors that closely resemble production engines in pretty much every North American motorsport.

    you NASCAR fans should be up on this fact.
    even the "latest" (meaning 12 year old cylinder heads that are just now made legal) Ford SC1 heads will bolt to my 351C or pretty much any sbf with a matching hiport intake manifold (and perhaps notching the pistons for valve reliefs but I am unsure if NASCAR allowed them to move the valves from stock location)
    try that with what is called a 'Chevrolet' by NASCAR

    then we can go to NHRA in the ProStock and what was ProStockTruck and compare the motors in the Chevy pits to what actually came in any Chevrolet product
    vs what was under the hoods of Fords.
    Fords dominance ended when W. Johnson was allowed to create a special motor and politics let it through the rulebook
    prior to that Mr Glidden was the winningest man in ProStock History

    I will leave TransAm out of it as I do not know where that sanctioning body has gone in regards to engines
    I do know they allowed Chev to use an 8.2 deck hieght motor to try and compete with the Fords that were basically Boss302s

    I am behind the times in all of these motorsports but the gist of it is the Chev production based motors cannot compete
     
  14. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    [ QUOTE ]
    what Chev parts do Ford guys use?



    [/ QUOTE ]
    try to find a 40's ford hot rod with a ford engine and tranny in it, rare breed, and if they do have ford stuff more than likley they will have a corvette rear end
     
  15. TWISTEDJACK

    TWISTEDJACK 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    14FF enuf' said
     
  16. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    So how did this turn from T-case mountint to timing chain covers and oil pump locations, and what the hell does Nascar have to do with it /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  17. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    Ford did some real intelligent things. Like...studs in the torque converter....yeah. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    Not to mention the 3 engines of the same cubic inch displacement, all with different bellhousing patterns.

    Oh yeah and that 351/400M, lots of power above 3,500. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  18. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    [ QUOTE ]
    try to find a 40's ford hot rod with a ford engine and tranny in it

    [/ QUOTE ]

    those obviously are not "Ford guys"

    my 400 ford is going to have plenty of power /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    400 problem is compression and cam, they have bigger valves and ports then any SBC factory installed

    actually 4 engines of the same displacement with 3 different bellhousings
    352FE uses the ancient FE pattern, 351W and 351C share the modern sbf pattern, and the 351M uses the modern big block pattern.
    you can get the bell with the motor when you swap and the tranny will bolt up, unlike a chev swap involving a sm465 and a car bellhousing.

    it isn't any easier or harder, just different.

    I have never had a problem with studs in the torque convertor, how has this caused you grief?

    as the origonal post states, try and swap transfer cases around in a chev and tell me again how easy swappin chev stuff is.
    just think how easy doing a doubler on a ford would be vs on a manual transmission chev.
    any 203 from a ford comes 31 spline and any 205 from a ford comes 31 spline + doubler kit. and it bolts to the round tranny adapter on all the fullsize trannys auto or manual
    vs
    a rare 1974 only 203 with weak worn out 10 spline and a rare t400 only version 32 spline 205 + doubler kit
     
  19. mudhog

    mudhog THEGAME Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    how about the interchangeability of most all small block Chevy motor parts? you can take anything from a 305 and put it on a 350. hell except for the crank being externally balanced on the 383 and 400 everything else interchanges. can you take anything from a ford 302 and put it on a 351?
     
  20. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Why couldn\'t GM do like Ford did????

    [ QUOTE ]
    can you take anything from a ford 302 and put it on a 351

    [/ QUOTE ]

    actually yes you can, 302 and 351W are preaty much the same block, same bore even.

    ford has some funky designs but so does chevy. like the thermostat on a ford, goes in from the front, instead of the top. still works the same, but can fall down and crack the housing when tightened. then again chevy did the same on the 4.3 vortec.

    the problem i have seen with the distributor in front is its the first thing to get wet in a mud/water hole and it kills the motor. a solution is cover the cap and wires with lithium grease and the water doesn't get in, but that sill doesn't completely solve the problem.

    i agree with the tcases, i have asked that question many times. but you still have a few problems with that, if you put a 205 in a newer truck with a slipyoke, or change a np203 with a np205 the front drive shaft is too long. you do have the same problems with a chevy but you don't have to wory about the splines.
     

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