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Why NOT tow with a shackle flip?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by dremu, Feb 28, 2005.

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  1. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    So I know not to do this, and my tow rig is very nicely stock, and my trail rig is the one with the flip ... and yet, for complicated reasons, I seem to have towed my dolly (empty!) home with the rig with the flip the other day.

    I can't say as it was all that squirrelly -- at least, no more so than the truck usually is at highway speed :haha: -- but then it wasn't really loaded per se.

    Anybody wanna tell me what I was supposed to notice, and maybe I'll remember feeling that?

    -- A
     
  2. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    NO reason why it should have felt weird....

    A shackle flip does nothing to destroy towing capabilities, this has been discussed ad-nausem in the ORD forum.


    :crazy:
     
  3. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I think Grim Reaper had a near death towing experience with a shackle flip. Can't recall all the details though, and it was posted at least three or four years ago.

    He was pretty convinced the shackle flip was at least partly to blame...
    Rene
     
  4. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Above and beyond the state of my Blazer, you mean :D She's actually in decent shape, other than the fore-aft drag link needing a bit of tweaking after I put the new arm on ... and various and sundry noises from driving at highway speed!

    Cool; thanks! I mean, I know how to tow, giving extra room, etc, and unladen it was hardly noticeable ... but I just wanted to see what I might have missed :D

    -- A
     
  5. AkMudr

    AkMudr 1/2 ton status

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    Do a search, Ive come across 20+ threads on this topic.
     
  6. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

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    I don't mind a new thread. I have read most if not all of them and have often wondered why someone couldn't just run airbags out back to corrct thre "squat" asscociated w/ loads. I have read about using proportioing hitches and whatnot, seems like towig with a K5 should be cool with the right setup.
     
  7. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't think I would want to tow a heavy rig with my Blazer . Yet I have towed with a dolly , a Nissan Sentra when stock , and I just towed a 78 tub on a 2000 lb or so heavy trailer with a flip . I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary .

    I think I could tow more , but would prefer to get a tow rig eventually .

    My two reasons :

    1. I would rather stop using my Blazer daily soon and send it to camping only use , and get a newer rig to drive and tow .

    2. I would rather not listen to everyone I know , and on CK5 give me crap for towing with a K5 :D
     
  8. tomseviltwin

    tomseviltwin 1/2 ton status

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    I remember this post. An unbalanced heavy trailer can take any kind of set up rig for a ride. My father in law was hauling a flatbed trailer in a stock k20 loaded with stone and it started undulating like that on the freeway. The trailer brakes are the only thing that save his butt.
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    The reason I will never suggest towing with a shackle flip, and never do so myself, is that instead of stiffening the effective spring rate when the springs compress as with a tension shackle, the springs actually feel, "softer" as they flatten out. This can make for a pretty scary experience if you're towing a heavy load.

    I love shackle flips for what they are, but I wouldn't tow with one.
     
  10. convertaburb

    convertaburb Registered Member

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    The new Dodge trucks come stock in the same configuration as a shackle flip. The tow rating has not changed but the shackle is upside down just like a shackle flip.
     
  11. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

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    Yup. Im not possitive about the 3/4 or 1 ton's, but i know the 1/2 ton's come with a compression shackle.

    So Tim, if when your brand new Dodge comes, are you going to sell it if it has a compression shackle, since you said yourself you won't tow with that style?
     
  12. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    It doesn't so that's not an issue.
     
  13. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Have you ever towed with a shackle flip on a vehicle Tim? I think that you would be amazed at how they work. Even though on paper the spring rate may get less it does not seem to have a large effect on the handling of the vehicle.

    Once agian I have towed with the same truck with several different types of lift in the rear and I felt a change in towing performance from stock to 4" lift. From there it was all the same between blocks, add a leafs and shackle flip. My experiance is that it is not a issue. I have proven that in the field not by reading it.
     
  14. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Another thing he never points out is that the higher the initial spring rate, the less effect the shackle flip has. So, on a set of stock 1/2 ton rear springs, you may notice a change, but most likely not until you have overloaded the truck anyway. Once you move up to a 3/4 or 1 ton pack the change would be negligible IMO.
     
  15. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    The change doesn't lessen. With the angularity change, it changes by the same percentage based on where the shackle is in its arc. With heavier loading, a 3/4 or 1 ton truck would see the same change, it is just lesser for a 3/4 or 1 ton with the same load as a 1/2 ton becuase the springs are stiffer.
     
  16. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    We have gone over this before, the higher the initial spring rate, the harder it is for the shackle to change angularity. The less it moves, the less effect on actual spring rate. Would you agree that the less angle, the less effect on actual spring rate?
     
  17. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    This is a conversation about shackle flips and towing not shackle angles and towing. I know they are closely related but lets keep on topic.

    I am not going to argue the facts that are stated on paper. I use practical knowledge and my personal experiances. I have only towed once with a blazer and this was years ago when the ORD blazer was still moms daily driver and I had to take four horses up valley for work. It did it, it swayed a bunch at higher speeds, and was generaly bad for towing. It did not have a shackle flip on it, infact I think it was lifted about 3" and had like 31s on it. So there is a basically stock vehicle that could not handle that task.

    The problem I see with people and towing with a vehicle modified for good trail use is that they are sprung soft to start with and then you throw a load at it and all of the sudden it sways and feels bad. Then they blame some minor part of the problem because a piece of paper says what they have is bad.

    For those that are reading this looking for the all mighty knowledge about Towing with Shackle flips just do a search and you will see many heated arguments about it.
     
  18. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Yes.

    If you load a 1/2 ton to capacity, the springs are going to compress to X.

    If you load a 1 ton the same as the 1/2 ton, springs will probably compress to 1/3x

    If you load the 1 ton to capacity, springs still compress to X.

    It's all relative.
     
  19. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    I disagree, when have you ever seen a 1 ton squat at full capacity as much as a 1/2 ton squats at full capacity? The 1 ton springs have a larger safety factor between what it can take and what it is rated for. Thus, I still believe that a 3/4 or 1 ton with a flip will feel no ill effects from a shackle flip because the angle of the shackle can not get to a point were it reduces the actual spring rate.
     
  20. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Don't know about yours, but my 1 tons have factory overload springs. The only safety factor is eliminated when the ride height is raised, unless you can lower the bumpstops for the overloads by a similar amount.

    3/4 tons have no aux. style overloads and the springs aren't THAT much stiffer than the 1/2 tons, plus they're longer which makes for even more angle change when they compress.....thus actually making for more change in effective spring rate.

    The simple answer is to just not tow with a shackle flip, and if you do, do not tow to rated capacity.
     
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