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why won't it just start???

Discussion in '1982-Present GM Diesel' started by K5Blazed, May 9, 2003.

  1. K5Blazed

    K5Blazed Registered Member

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    why won\'t it just start???

    After weeks of problems I finally thought I had my diesel running great. It started up fine and ran smoothly. A few days ago I started it up (after not starting if for about 4 days) and was giving it some gas durning idle, when it just died on me. After trying to start it up again I've had no success. I've tried using WD-40 in the intake as I was recommended by a GM mechanic, but have had no real luck. Today I got it to start up for about 15 seconds when it died the same way again. This is very frustrating because I've had many starting problems in the past and I have to keep taking time to charge up the batteries due to the amount of cranking that I'm doing...that, and it just won't run /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

    Has anyone had any starting problems like this? /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
     
  2. doctor4x4

    doctor4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    well as you will see if you do a search i just went through starting HELL and live to tell about it
    2 make a Very long frusting story some what short
    i got some GREAT advice from some of the outher MEMBERS on here so do a search and read up all the possibilitys that they helped me with
    but in a real quick summery
    have you
    1 checked all your glow plugs
    2 do u have power 2 the cold advance ( thats part of what my prolem was
    3. do U have power to primary fuel pump
    4 do you have fuel (" ")
    5.is the fuel good ??
    6. are your plugs shutting off properly ?? ( that was anouther part of my problem ) they wernt shutting off there by burning up the plugs
    plus im sure youll get more from outher members
    and if ya join it shows all that your serious and ya get even more help or at least i did i mean good god 25.00 ya spent that in first 15 minutes at the gm mech shop probly :-)
    well good luck 2 ya
    Randy
     
  3. DieselFreak

    DieselFreak Registered Member

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    well well that was just what I was about to ask (i was gonna ask if he had a leak somewhere). Tell me, thosse small leaks are the most nasty ones. Had one a while ago. It ran finebut when u had it stalled over the weekend u got too late to school on monday morning..
     
  4. K5Blazed

    K5Blazed Registered Member

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    i've got power going through the glow plugs and i think they work fine since i've been able to start it up in the past and they turn on and shut off properly. the fuel guage shows 1/4tank, but the fuel could be more than 6 months old. i took off the fuel line at an injector and it was dripping, so i know the fuel goes through. I just don't understand why it won't keep running. this is so frustrating. i think that i might just end up dropping it off at a mechanic paying him to deal with the headache.
     
  5. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    watch your exhaust while you crank it. If it smoking you've got fuel. If the smoke stops you've got an air-leak problem (there is a lag as exhaust travels down the pipe). /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    [ QUOTE ]
    i've got power going through the glow plugs and i think they work fine since i've been able to start it up in the past and they turn on and shut off properly. the fuel guage shows 1/4tank, but the fuel could be more than 6 months old. i took off the fuel line at an injector and it was dripping, so i know the fuel goes through. I just don't understand why it won't keep running. this is so frustrating. i think that i might just end up dropping it off at a mechanic paying him to deal with the headache.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hey man
    is this your only driver?
    I am busy these days but if you wait a week or so I can swimg by and help you diagnose and fix it.
    Where in Davis are you?
    I live in Sac.
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. Drey

    Drey 3/4 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    Did you try bleeding out your fuel line, the same thing happened on my Scottsdale when i first bought it...i switched the tanks, not knowing the otherone was empty.
     
  8. 82GR8WHITE

    82GR8WHITE Registered Member

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    I'm not sure if someone has posted this yet.... But it sounds like a fuel filter. Once they are clogged they won't start even though everything checks out.
    Good Luck
     
  9. K5Blazed

    K5Blazed Registered Member

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    Uh yeah. I just sent it to the dealership to get a diagnostic. I didn't know what was wrong with it, and needed to get it out of the front of the house and driving, so hopefully the mechanic at the dealership can figure it out. I've been out of a ride for a few months now. I'm in S. Davis. Can I PM you if the dealership can't figure it out? /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  10. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    [ QUOTE ]
    Uh yeah. I just sent it to the dealership to get a diagnostic. I didn't know what was wrong with it, and needed to get it out of the front of the house and driving, so hopefully the mechanic at the dealership can figure it out. I've been out of a ride for a few months now. I'm in S. Davis. Can I PM you if the dealership can't figure it out? /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry you had to send it to the dealers.
    I am not here very often anymore, so if you email me you could get a faster response.
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. K5Blazed

    K5Blazed Registered Member

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    It's all good. I got word from the dealership this morning. Technician says that it needs a new injector pump /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I guess that's why I was having some rough idling problems before. I think I'm just gonna let them take care of it so I get a GM warranty even though it's gonna cost me $1500 for p+l.
     
  12. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    [ QUOTE ]
    It's all good. I got word from the dealership this morning. Technician says that it needs a new injector pump /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I guess that's why I was having some rough idling problems before. I think I'm just gonna let them take care of it so I get a GM warranty even though it's gonna cost me $1500 for p+l.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
    Man that must have hurt.
    /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  13. Tybee

    Tybee 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    It's all good. I got word from the dealership this morning. Technician says that it needs a new injector pump /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I guess that's why I was having some rough idling problems before. I think I'm just gonna let them take care of it so I get a GM warranty even though it's gonna cost me $1500 for p+l.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
    Man that must have hurt.
    /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    [/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif Do it yourself.
     
  14. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    If you can do work on your engine like change a water pump, replace the timing chain, or anything like that, then you can change the injection pump yourself for under $500.

    Of course, you may not have the time. I know how that is.

    Casey
     
  15. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    Casey,

    I know I keep leaning on you for good tech info...I hope you don't mind too much. How do you positively diagnose a bad injection pump? Are special tools required or are the symptoms enough to go on?

    Rene
     
  16. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    There are a lot of things that can go bad on an injector pump, so you have to know the symptoms of all of it. Some of the common things are the governor flyweight flex ring getting torn up, which can cause a hunt or surge, the outlet valve on the housing can clog up and cause the fuel to be blocked that comes out of the pump, this can cause low power because the fuel is not being circulated through the pump and cooling it, so hot fuel is being used which is thinner and has less BTU content. You can obviously have leaks that will cause hard starting like at the throttle shaft or the governor cover. Defective shutoff solenoids are easy to test, just listen for clicking when its powered. Really, with the Stanadyne DB2 pump, the last thing I would replace is the injector pump, cause the high pressure pumping and distibuting parts of the pump hardly ever fail, and these are really the only things that warrant replacing a whole pump. Usually its something that you or a fuel shop can replace much cheaper than getting a whole new pump.
     
  17. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    The only way to really test an injection pump for sure, is to remove it and have it tested on a stand at a fuel injection shop. Usually the symptoms lead you to the problem. Most pumps don't just suddenly fail...they usually get worse over time. 150K miles seems to be about the average lifespan, from what I've gathered.

    There's a shop in Texas rebuilding DB2 pumps to any specs you want for $175. One of the DP members just had one rebuilt to the 6.5L 4911 specs, and is really pleased with it.

    I wouldn't buy a new pump either...you can get it rebuilt much cheaper. The rebuilt DB2 on my '81 has been running flawlessly for over 100K miles.

    Casey
     
  18. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    Do you happen to know that shops name? Do they have a web site?

    Please bear with my lack of knowledge...all 6.2 and 6.5 pumps are DB2's? If so what does having one built to the 4911 spec's do for power and economy? What internal changes are there?

    Rene
     
  19. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    All 6.2s have DB2 pumps, and some 6.5s have DB2s, and the electronic years have DS4s, basically the same pump but the DS4 has an electric motor that changes the fuel metering. Anyway, this 4911 or whatever is probably just a ploy to sell pumps. The parts of the pump that would change fuel metering and timing would add up to way over 175 bucks just in parts. Most likely they are just adjusting the fuel screw slightly and selling it as a hopped up pump. I doubt anyone here knows exactly the differences, I suspect you would need to find some stanadyne manual of some sort to give you that info. Even with more fuel from the pump, you need more air to match it. If you can put black smoke out of the tailpipe, then you already can put out more fuel than the 6.2 can efficiently burn with the air it takes in.
     
  20. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    Re: why won\'t it just start???

    The 4911 pump was the last pump used on the mechanical 6.5L engine. It is the most powerful stock pump used. I had been told that the earlier pumps couldn't be made into 4911 pumps because of internal differences. However, this shop seems to have done a good job.

    http://www.accuratediesel.com is the shop that I mentioned. Like I said, I haven't dealt personally with them, but have heard good reports so far.

    The 4911 pump delivers more fuel at a quicker rate than the earlier pumps. Whereas I've got my fuel metering screw adjusted up so that it's dumping more fuel in the cylinders, it can't inject it fast enough to benefit me like the updated pump can. If you're wanting serious power, then that's the pump to use.

    A 4911 pump will benefit an n/a engine, because it can deliver the fuel quicker, in a shorter burst. However, a turbo will, of course, make much better use of it.

    A 4911 pump was used on Dr. Lee's new n/a engine that you've probably read about on the DP.

    The 4911 was used up until 1993.

    Casey
     

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