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Wide band O2 for prominator?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by dirtwarrior17, Apr 9, 2005.

  1. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    Ever since i found out 14.7:1 AFR isn't optimum power I want to get it somewhere around 12:1 which should get me optimum power. I plan to burn 6 different MAPs... one for highway, one for town, one for dd, one for low rpm grunt, one for midrange, and one for peak power. My question is can i run the wideband O2 with the stock ecm or is it a standalone? If its compatable with the stock ecm is it just screw in the new 02 and im done or do i need to keep the stock O2 and run em both? :confused:
     
  2. BobK

    BobK 1/2 ton status

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  3. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    tbi... ecm # 1227747
     
  4. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    I built a 2A0 DIY kit from www.wbo2.com You can even do data aquisition with it so you will know how to change your chip. I haven't had the time to start messing with burning chips yet.

    This is some of the data I have taken. It was a built 350 chevy with a roller cam.

    [​IMG]

    You can see that he has a bit too much pump shot in the carb by the spike rich (down) when he gets on the gas. I plan on doing data-aq on TPS, MAP, and ???

    It has a output for a narrow band O2 that you can plug into your computer on your truck insted of the normal sensor but I will most likely just put in another bung to run it.
     
  5. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    wow... 7000 rpm and 20:1 AFR... i think i speak for the motor when i say ouch.


    What I meant to ask in the original post was is there a wideband o2 that i can buy as a stock replacement that just plugs right into the stock plug and works with the 1227747 ecm?
     
  6. jac6695

    jac6695 1/2 ton status

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    Uh, look at the chart again. Looks to me more like 11-13:1 AFR at the 7000 rpm spike.
     
  7. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    Exactly! The RPM is pink and goes with the scale on the left and the AFR is blue and goes with the scale on the right. It goes leaner when he lets off the throttle...but even that is only about 14.7. This motor put out just over 300hp and 360lb*ft to the rear wheels. Considering he has a th400 and a ford 9" which are both known for using up alot of power the motor should be pushing 400hp. He hasen't gotten it to the track yet after the most recient round of mods but he is going to take me with when he does if he knows what's good for him :grin:
     
  8. Fierospeeder

    Fierospeeder Banned

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    you dont know for sure if your engine runs the greatest at 12 to 1. This is something you need to do on a dyno and get numbers. One engine might run awesome at 11.7 to 1 while a different engine will run at 12.5 to 1. If you do run at 12 to 1, you might just be wasting gas and losing power at the same time.
     
  9. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    my bad... i didn't see the key because it was way over >>>>>>.... i didn't scroll far enough.

    what rpm does that peak power come in at? better question....why does he have a 7000 rpm motor in a truck?

    Fierospeeder: your right... i still need a wideband tho.

    so does anybody know the answer?


     
  10. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    No. Wideband O2's were not OEM on any OBD1 GM system I am aware of, certianly not on the '747 ECM.

    As was mentioned, there are hac's for other ECM's (or just one) but you'll have to search which.
     
  11. BobK

    BobK 1/2 ton status

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    Ya,no plug-n-play wide band.The ECM needs programing to know what it's looking at.
    The parameters for a wideband o2 are not in a stock chip.

    That's the reason for the HACK.
     
  12. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    Actually I already answered that. The WBO2 that I got along with most of the other ones have a narrow band output that you can plug into your computer.

    With the Tech Edge controlers you can program the output. So if you wanted to you could shift the curve to whatever you want. It has a few outputs and if you wanted to you could program them to spit out a narrow band curve that would be centered around 12:1 and you could program another to be centered around 16:1. You could then most likely set up a switch to go between the 2.

    But for the most part unless you plan to do some major 'hacks' to the computer they arn't ment to accept a wideband output range.
     
  13. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    so how much $$$ am i looking at to get the programmer and o2 together? what all is involved?

    this tbi hot rod is turning out to cost me an arm and a leg... if i would have known this i would have given edelbrock a call for an mpfi system...but im stuck with tbi that is strung out to support 350 hp.

    I have 1000 to spend on prominator, laptop, wideband o2, and whatever else is gonna pop up.

    prominator and laptop = 500

    wideband=?????????

    wideband programmer???

    I'd like to have alittle left to thro into a lockrite for my 10b. Decided to say 10b seeing as i will be staying 35-36 inch tires. but that will probably change every day or two. come to think of it a 14b costs as much as a 10b lockrite... lol its changin.
     
  14. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    go to www.wbo2.com and look at the prices. They have a few differet premade controlers and also the 2A0 DIY kit that I got. The prices are in AU$ so you will need to convert them to US$. I thought the premade kit was a good way to go because of how much I learned about it. I got the o2 sensor from some VW dealer online that is linked to from the TechEdge site. I think it was around $40. If you want to save some cash you don't have to get a display. You can just use the laptop as a display. You also don't need a programer for the WBO2 controler other then the serial cable that comes with it.

    As for laptop get a cheep old one. You don't need any power at all to do data-aq or programing. You also won't worry about beating it up in your truck so much. If you want to stay cheep you should look for a laptop that comes with a serial port. Many new laptops don't come with serial ports on them. You can buy a serial to USB adapter but that is just one more thing to spend $$$ on. All you should need is a cheep $100-$150 laptop.

    You also might want to look at the inovative controller at www.summitracing.com ...but you have to pay more $$$ if you want to do data-aq.
     
  15. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    what exactly is data aq for an 02?

    all my programming with the prominator will be based off the laptop... so basically i won't need a programmer right?

    ebay has some good cheap laptops with 400 somethin mghz which is 2x as fast as my pc :grin:
     
  16. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    Data-Aq is short for Data Acquisition. It is just recording what is going on so you can go back and look at it later. It is what you need to do in order to know what to change in order to make your motor run the way you want it. Just knowing what you want to try to get to isn't enough. You also need to know what it is to start with in order to know know how much to change it.

    A tipical fuel map would be rpm vs map and have different values of volumetric efficiency. You will be able to sort the data you recorded and find out what the actual AFR was at one specific rpm/map value, compare it to the desired AFR and know how much to change the value in the table.

    You can do the same with change in TPS vs time (aka dTPS/dt for you nerds out there). Compair the actual AFR to the desired AFR and make changes acordingly.

    Recording spark advance vs. MAP, RPM, & knock count will be hard to do. There is some dicussion on how to record knock on the WBO2.com's yahoo email list that you can search for. If you are recording the inputs for the spark table (RPM vs MAP for the most part...), and know if it is knocking or not you can know if what is in the map is too low or too high. You won't know exactly how much need to advance/retard it but it shouldn't take long to get it close. You will need a dyno to get it right on (same with the AFR).

    I'm sure you have (or will) read about doing data-aq from the ALDL port but I think the output is too slow to do any good.
     
  17. dirtwarrior17

    dirtwarrior17 Banned

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    so i won't need the programmer... just laptop, prominator and wideband o2 right?


    HOw far does the stock O2 sensor go or does it just work at 14.7?
     
  18. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    See above

    I don't know much about the prominator...are you going to have to boot up your laptop just to drive your truck? I would think you would still need a programer to get the factory .bin out of to have something to start with. I would then put a regular chip back in after you have figured everything out.

    I'm sorry your computer at home is so slow :( As soon as I get a real job I will need to update my 2.2ghz for something faster :D
     
  19. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    Stock narrow band can only tell you if you are lean (more than 14.7) or rich (less than 14.7). It can't really even tell you if you are at 14.7 :crazy:
    It also has a very slow response and is only good at steady state (i.e. on the hwy at steady speed).

    FWIW the only thing 14.7 is really good for is keeping the cat happy and emissions down.
     

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