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Wierdo Neil Pickett Driveshaft Incest ?

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by Resurrection_Joe, Apr 3, 2004.

  1. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Since my truck has some pretty stupid flex in the front now, as compared to it's previous setup, I was kind of worried about the driveshaft, but figured the shocks would limit the axle enough.

    I came across this looking for Brents old posts

    [ QUOTE ]
    Essentially all you need is an existing Spicer type 1310 CV to start with. You disassemble the CV completely. The Center section and ball pivot will be discarded. Purchase a 1330 center section and ball pivot, also purchase the Spicer conversion joints to go from 1310 to 1330 (standard 10 bolt rear to 12 bolt rear conversion joint). Reassemble with these parts. I haven't done this mod myself yet, Im still running the near stock Saginaw CV up front.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Gwa?

    Has anyone else done this?
     
  2. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Too weak for this application, and by the time you do that and put a 1350 at the pinion and purchase a new yoke for your axle, you'll have spent $300-400.

    If you're having front driveshaft issues you have two real options:

    Go to a shaft without a CV up front

    or,

    Call Tom Woods or Jesse at High Angle and get yourself a good shaft made.
     
  3. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    I figured as much, was hoping it'd be a $100 pop together

    Are you running the single joint at each end 1410 shaft?
     
  4. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Eh?

    He's saying buy a 1330 H-yoke and then use the stock ball stud and socket yokes? What he says doesn't make sense to me. If you buy the "pivot" as he's talking about... that's part of the tube yokes... and then you've got 1330 everything.



    Have you tried grinding yet? That's on my list of crap to do.
     
  5. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I figured as much, was hoping it'd be a $100 pop together

    Are you running the single joint at each end 1410 shaft?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, I ordered Jesse's High Angle 1350 CV with a 1410 at the pinion end almost two weeks ago. It will be here tomorrow or the next day.
     
  6. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Does the 1410 joint cost a lot more than the 1350? Where did you get the 1410 pinion?

    Mind if I asked how much it cost? I'll need to updrage my front shaft sooner or later
     
  7. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    I learned this trick from the Okie boys.

    Tim, how did you determine it would be too weak for this application? The reason I ask, this mod has been done by many of the Oklahoma crowd that I run with. These guys wheel every weekend, and Im not talking once a year, I mean every weekend. They are currently running Rockwells with 44" tires and by no means try to save in the weight department. So, what do you mean too weak? /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Im running a 1330 CV in my K5, so is Layne, so is Steve Frisbie, and Dan and so on...

    I just wheeled a week ago and hammered it to a 4500 RPM pass up a slick hill at Fulton. The truck was bouncing 2 foot off the ground, I have a doubler which puts even more stress on the drivetrain - and I have never had a problem with the 1330 CV.

    I have nearly all the parts to do this and I will be finishing it real soon. Just waiting to get the drivetrain mounted in the new frame and will take measurements. Im moving the frontend forward so I cant get the measurement for the shaft.
     
  8. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Dan doesn't run a 1310 CV. I just took him his yoke back because he left it on the 205 when he gave it to me. It wasn't 1330, it was 1310.

    U joints will rarely break with simply too much torque, but binding will break them quickly. A 1330 joint is wider than a 1310, and while not stronger, it will take more angle without binding, and without bind, it probably will live a long and happy life in your truck.

    (other above poster)

    A 1410 is the same as a 1350 in cap/trunion size, just wider. It offers more angle than a 1350 just like the 1330 vs. 1310 (but bigger overall than either of those). I chose a 1410 at the pinion for mine because the 1310 was binding at ride height so I wanted to ensure that it wouldn't bind all the way to the limits of my wheel travel.

    Many people can say that Saginaw CVs, doublers, this u joint, blah blah has lasted a long time. I can tell you the reality that I came to before I ordered Jesse's 1 ton CV front shaft.

    My front shaft is 27-28" long. The Saginaw CV with full clearance will max out at about 3-4" of downward travel of the CV. The 1310 at the pinion on the other hand was binding at ride height, and that angle only gets worse as the passenger side tire drooped.

    I could have upgraded to a 1410 at the pinion without buying a new shaft and upgrading the CV but I feared that I would blow the CV apart if I did so, so I avoided that and got Jesse's CV shaft.

    Other people may not have this harsh reality when they go to build a driveshaft, but that is how I finally broke down and did it.
     
  9. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Dan doesn't run a 1310 CV. I just took him his yoke back because he left it on the 205 when he gave it to me. It wasn't 1330, it was 1310.

    U joints will rarely break with simply too much torque, but binding will break them quickly. A 1330 joint is wider than a 1310, and while not stronger, it will take more angle without binding, and without bind, it probably will live a long and happy life in your truck.

    (other above poster)

    A 1410 is the same as a 1350 in cap/trunion size, just wider. It offers more angle than a 1350 just like the 1330 vs. 1310 (but bigger overall than either of those). I chose a 1410 at the pinion for mine because the 1310 was binding at ride height so I wanted to ensure that it wouldn't bind all the way to the limits of my wheel travel.

    Many people can say that Saginaw CVs, doublers, this u joint, blah blah has lasted a long time. I can tell you the reality that I came to before I ordered Jesse's 1 ton CV front shaft.

    My front shaft is 27-28" long. The Saginaw CV with full clearance will max out at about 3-4" of downward travel of the CV. The 1310 at the pinion on the other hand was binding at ride height, and that angle only gets worse as the passenger side tire drooped.

    I could have upgraded to a 1410 at the pinion without buying a new shaft and upgrading the CV but I feared that I would blow the CV apart if I did so, so I avoided that and got Jesse's CV shaft.

    Other people may not have this harsh reality when they go to build a driveshaft, but that is how I finally broke down and did it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Dan's is a 1330 CV, because I shipped it to him along with the Yoke. I had a local fabricator build it for him.

    Why don't you get out the tape measure and start measuring your driveline angles, then I'll measure mine and laugh at yours. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    My Doubler is clocked up farther than any other I have seen. My front output is level with the input. Meaning, on my truck the front driveline angle is as severe as a truck with 12" of suspension lift. The rear of mine is pushed up to where the doubler allows for a flat belly.

    Add this up with some short wheelbase and you are talking about driveline angles.

    I like your persistance in posting information to people around here and granted some of it might be useful, but don't go saying somethings weak just because you dropped 5 bills on your driveshaft and go wheeling once a year. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif

    Also for clarity... I only wheel about 3 times a year! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  10. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    So are you saying Timmay that a 1330 is no stronger than a 1310 and a 1410 is no stronger than a 1350, they just allow more angularity?
     
  11. backyardbuilt

    backyardbuilt 1/2 ton status

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    I was there he beat it like a rented mule on several occassions. Neil can you pm me a list of parts you need for this as I need a good shaft up front and have to get mine lengthened so better upgrade to match the 1350 cv rear shaft.
     
  12. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So are you saying Timmay that a 1330 is no stronger than a 1310 and a 1410 is no stronger than a 1350, they just allow more angularity?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am not an engineer, but I believe that with the same size bearing surface on the trunnion, they're the same strength. Not being an engineer, I will not say that I know for a fact either way, but I belive that 1330 = 1310 and 1350 = 1410. If I am wrong I would like explain how one can be stronger than the other with the same amount of meat in the trunnion though, and in that case I will gladly retract my statement.

    Neal,

    Yes, my front driveline angles suck, I agree. That's basically why I had such harsh reality that I came to with my front shaft. If I had a doubler, or an automatic, I'm sure they'd be FAR better. But, for now, my driveline angles just suck ass, and hopefully this HAD will deal with them.

    As I said above about the 1330 joints comment--damn near anything is better than a 1310, as a joint with yokes that are not binding will live far longer than a binding driveshaft will ever live.

    I do not claim to be a driveshaft expert at all. I did investigate MY options throughly and there weren't many for me. If this HAD doesn't work, it's no CV, or the italian 42* CV because pretty much nothing else can take the angle.

    As I said though, every truck is different. Mine happens to be the bastard redheaded stepchild with a rear shaft over twice as long as the front. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  13. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I agree. If those numbers are correct, a 1410 is somehow approximately 15% stronger with no additional meat in the cross. I'm wondering what's up with that?
     
  15. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    This a simple matter of leverage. When applying a torque, the amount of force required depends on the distance from the pivot point. So by moving the caps further out, the same shear force is seen in the U-joint while delivering more torque down the driveshaft. It's just like using a longer breaker bar to turn a nut. You apply the same force (strength), but the torque to the nut has increased.
     
  16. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    If what you say is true, a wider u joint should be weaker, not stronger.

    The fact that the caps are further from the pivot point (center of the trunnion) would apply more leverage and reduce the amount of torque load that the joint is capable of.

    I had thought of that but thought the effect of that would be minimal.

    In that case, 1310 would be stronger than 1330, and 1350 stronger than 1410, but according to that chart, that is not correct. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  17. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Actually, he's right (for the most part). It can be stronger when the cross base is heavier further out. Because the caps are further out, the heavy center of the cross can be bigger further out before being machined down for the bearing surface. Does that make sense?

    However, if you look at the torque ratings, (I don’t remember the details exactly but) your not gaining anything by in strength going 1350 to 1410, but you get quite a bit of angularity.
     
  18. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Yes, it does make sense now. Basically, the cross has a bigger chunk of meat in the middle because it's wider which will make it slightly stronger.

    That makes sense /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Minimal difference though.
     
  19. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    You have to consider what the most likely failure point is. What I have seen the most is failures out at the end. That is, either the cross breaks right where it necks down to the roller bearing surface or the rollers/cap are deformed and spit out of the yoke.

    That being the case, you only need to think about the forces at the end of the joint. Keeping that force constant, you can widen out the center of the cross and apply a greater torque through the driveshaft.

    Of course, if the center of the cross is breaking, that's a different story.
     
  20. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Well, this is where I say "duh". It's usually the cap or somewhere in the "cross" that most universals break from what I've seen. The larger the cross, the larger the filet, the stronger the universal. Of course, it'll eventually get to the point where the trunnion and cap are the weakest points but usually not. Usually as the univeral gets bigger so does the trunnion so bearing life is high.
     

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