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Wtf... just send him up!

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by hammermachine, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. hammermachine

    hammermachine 1/2 ton status

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    War Objector's Court-Martial Begins
    Associated Press | February 06, 2007
    FORT LEWIS, Wash. - The judge in the case against the first U.S. officer court-martialed for refusing to ship out for Iraq barred several experts in international and constitutional law from testifying Monday about the legality of the war.
    1st Lt. Ehren Watada, 28, of Honolulu, is charged with missing movement for refusing to ship out with his unit, the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division. He also faces charges of conduct unbecoming an officer for accusing the Army of war crimes and denouncing the administration for conducting an "illegal war" founded on "lies."
    As his court-martial got under way, military judge Lt. Col. John Head refused to allow almost all defense witnesses to take the stand. Head previously ruled that Watada's attorney, Eric Seitz, could not debate the legality of the Iraq war in court.
    If convicted, Watada could receive four years in prison and a dishonorable discharge. He has requested that his case be heard by a military panel of officers, the equivalent of a jury.
    Panel selection began in the afternoon, with the defense and prosecution questioning a pool of 10 officers. Seven were ultimately chosen to sit on the panel.
    On Tuesday, prosecutors were expected to call at least three witnesses as they try to prove that Watada's speech amounted to misconduct.
    Seitz said he would call Watada and a character witness, an Army captain who has known Watada for about two years. The captain has been brought back from service in Iraq to testify, the lawyer said.
    Although other officers have refused to deploy to Iraq, Watada is the first to be court-martialed. Army Sgt. Kevin Benderman, an enlisted man, served 13 months in prison and was dishonorably discharged after refusing to go to Iraq in 2005.
    Outside the base, a small group that included actor Sean Penn demonstrated in support of Watada. A few others demonstrated against him, including one man who carried a sign calling Watada a "weasel."
    Watada, who joined the Army in March 2003, has called the Iraq war "a horrible breach of American law" and said he has a duty to refuse illegal orders.
    Army prosecutors have argued that Watada's behavior was dangerous to the mission and morale of Soldiers in Iraq.
    "He betrayed his fellow Soldiers who are now serving in Iraq," Capt. Dan Kuecker said at one hearing.
     
  2. SkulzNBonz

    SkulzNBonz 1/2 ton status

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    Yep, he volunteered, run his a$$ up the flagpole.

    John
     
  3. Brodie

    Brodie 1/2 ton status

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    What's funny is that he is only a 1st Lieutenant. That means that he has been in the Army for less than 4 years (unless he fu<ked up). Consequently he joined AFTER the invasion of IRAQ in Mar 2003. What a chicken Sh!t Pu$$y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I'm so tired of hearing this bull**** about "illegal wars". Even a ****ing retard knows that international treaty law allows for "desert storm II". In short, if you are fighting a war with someone (Desert Storm in '91 in this case) and then end the war with a treaty (stormin' Norman and Saddams rep signed) and then one party later on breaks the treaty (which Saddam unquestionably did)... then the other side is free to resume hostilities until the treaty can be enforced or a new treaty signed. Absolutely nothing "illegal" about OIF whatsoever.... in any way... ever.

    j
     
  5. hammermachine

    hammermachine 1/2 ton status

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    I don't get it.

    When you DECIDE to join the military you have to understand that you might have to FIGHT. This was true before 9/11 and it damn well is true after. I don't understand this candyass, you don't get to decide what wars you want to fight and ones you don't. You have that choice BEFORE you join up. This guy needs to go to federal lock up. I bet after that he'll want to be in Iraq or Afganistan.
     
  6. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    It does send a clear message to anyone else thinking about doing the same, what with throwing out the option to argue legality of the war.
     
  7. Jagged

    Jagged 1 ton status

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    He needs to go make big rocks into little rocks.
     
  8. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    lol, yeah, when I signed up they asked me 5-6 times (worded differently each time!) if I understood I could get sent to a combat zone... and I had to initial/sign some paper work. This guy went in after the current war started... signed the papers knowing the ramifications and now is turning into a candy ass piece of ****. I know for damn sure I wouldn't want that moron in charge of my platoon. Court martial 'em... and then send him to the place where Rambo was making boulders into smaller pebbles. ;)

    j
     
  9. 84 K5 4x4

    84 K5 4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Kick him out of the country. If he dont want to defend it then why did he join the Armed forces. I joined the USMC wanting to Fock up hodgees.
     
  10. CDA 455

    CDA 455 3/4 ton status

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    Excellent points :bow: :bow: !!

    The only reasonable (pun intended) explanation for his actions, is that this was his goal from the get go! Otherwise, the points you bring up make him look like a major (pun intended) idiot!!


    BTW, I worked for McDonnell Douglas when the C-17 was designed and first rolled off the assembly line. Awesome plane :bow: !
     
  11. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    Go ahead guys, I have my Nomex on.

    If he honestly believes that the conflict in Iraq is illegal and immoral, then he has my respect for standing by his principles. He also gets my DA of the Century award for joining the Army.

    Now, history buffs, ponder this;

    During the Nuremburg Trials, many German Generals were prosecuted for following the orders of their superiors. The allies reasoning was the generals should have obeyed their own moral codes.

    Sounds to me like that is what this officer of the US Army is claiming. So, the question is this; do we only use this line of thinking on our defeated enemies???????????
     
  12. CustomChevy

    CustomChevy 1/2 ton status

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    I hope thats a strong cup man, some peepee slapping is incoming


    Thats a hell of an interesting point. Though maybe apples to oranges. The guys who were at Nuremburg were responsible for the mass murder of tens of millions of jewish people. While the Iraq situation is pretty FUBAR its nothing to what himler and co were on trial for.
     
  13. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

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    [SIZE=+1]I DO SOLEMLY SWEAR(OR AFFIRM)THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES,FOREGIN AND DOMESTIC, THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; THAT I TAKE THIS OBLIGATION FREELY WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION OR PURPOSE OF EVASION; AND THAT I WILL WELL AND FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES OF THE OFFICE ON WHICH I AM ABOUT TO ENTER , SO HELP ME GOD.

    [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]This is the oath I took and the same oath he took when he commissioned. It says I take this OBLIGATION FREELY without any mental reservation OR PURPOSE OF EVASION. By refusing to deploy he evaided which he swore (or affirmed) not to do. We are in a time of war and he is a deserter in my book. Put a bullet in his ****ing head and be done with him. :mad:

    A key point in the oath is that we do not swear to obey the orders of the president or officers appointed over us. We only swear to support the constitution (US LAW) and that we do it of our own will and will not fall back on our word. The enlisted oath swears to obey the orders of the President of the United States of America and the orders of those appointed over me according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice as well as supporting and defending the Constitution of The United States.

    Rant off

    Ira
    [/SIZE]


     
  14. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I gotta side with Matt et al on this one, Mike. The wholesale genocide that occured in WW2 Germany and the officers involved in the atrocities cannot be compared to the current state of affairs in Iraq, or the soldiers serving right now. However, if we were over there herding the Iraqis into camps and gassing them, I too would refuse to honor my commitment.

    In addition, as others have mentioned, the young lad signed up AFTER we had invaded. He HAD to have known that it was only a matter of time before he got sent overseas.

    It sounds to me like he got a severe case of Chicken-itis.......:dunno:
     
  15. blasphemous

    blasphemous 1/2 ton status

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    The Nuremburg Trials and this guy's court martial isn't the same ballgame. They're not even the same sport... ANYWAY, He knew what he was getting into when he joined. IMO, he wanted all the benefits (government paid education and etc) without having to "pay" for it.
    I spent my 5 years in the USMC during 9/11, Afghanistan and Iraq. However, I never got deployed anywhere... but I did try to volunteer. I worked almost directly for the 3-star General of Marine Forces Atlantic though and AFAIK he was the one turning it down.
    To get to my point, I signed up knowing there's a possibility of going to war. I actually WANTED to go and fight. I had alot of friends over there and I kind of feel like I didn't fulfill my obligation because of that.
    BURN HIS ASS!
     
  16. Jagged

    Jagged 1 ton status

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    Funny story about commissioned versus enlisted oath; a friend of mine was re-enlisting, and our flight commander accidentally gave him the commissioning oath :o
     
  17. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I guess you had to be there..........:rolleyes:
































    :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

    Just bustin' your balls, brother.:D
     
  18. CDA 455

    CDA 455 3/4 ton status

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    Nice try, but your point is so weak there's no need for a response :wink1: !


    If there is one thing I can say about you, it's that at least you're consistent :D :bow: :bow: !!
     
  19. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    if we are going to roll with the Nuremburg example, just what exactly is this "officer" refering to with respect to his specific moral objection? Our guys are on the side of liberty and justice for all... if this guy is against that... then yeah, he oughta be braking rocks for several years. I'd just like to know what his problem was specifically. Look at what we have done / are doing...

    1) removed Sadam... an unquestionably evil piece of ****... pretty hard to claim that removing his is against any sane moral code...

    2) fighting terrorists... ditto above.

    3) rebuilding the iraqi government.

    4) rebuilding iraqi infrastructure.

    That is pretty much what we have done there... now, where exactly is the Nazi-concentration-camp-esque part?

    j
     
  20. hammermachine

    hammermachine 1/2 ton status

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    Killing in the name of

    All good points. I feel nothing for this sh**head. He decided to join up... especially after 9/11, he should have thought about it more before he signed up. Does anyone even know his MOS?

    It doesn't matter, really I'm just curious.

    As far as the comparision, come on! How can you compare what the Nazis did to what were doing over there. Personally I would have liked to have finished Bin Laden and the Afgan commitment first before taking on Iraq but it wasn't up to me. We are there and committed so lets finish the fight. Take this sh**bird , slap some bodyarmor on him and ship him over. Make him a private and put him in a lead humvee. Then we'll see him fight.
     

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