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You guys have to check this out!!!!

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by BUDDY, Jun 1, 2001.

  1. BUDDY

    BUDDY 1/2 ton status

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    I just found out about this new suspension system from Australia called Kinetic Suspension http://www.sprfetch.about.com/cgi/sprinks/sprunder2.htm?terms=cars&ref=000165, that gives me an idea about how this system works and I think it would totally KICK ASS on any blazer!!! The following paragraphs are a quote from the second website I listed and if you go there it has a diagram that sums it up pretty well.

    So simple, yet so awesome!!

    Come Awn fellas!! YEEEEE HAAAA!

    Sorry, I don't usually get too excited, but this system is BAAAADDDDD!!!!!

    For those of you not familiar with the Kinetic Suspension System (KSS), here's a little background. In the late eighties Australian inventor Christopher Heyring had an idea for a new kind of suspension.

    His idea was similar to Active Suspension but with a twist. Instead of using the sophisticated electronics and pumps to control four shocks, he envisioned an interconnected suspension that would use the energy created by the suspensions travel to balance the vehicle. It's an elegant solution that allows a Kinetic equipped vehicle to maintain near equal loading on all wheels even in extreme conditions. In essence it's a passive active suspension.


    Heyring and his team at Kinetic has continually refined the system since receiving their first patent in the early 90's. Since then they have received nine more US Patents on variations and refinements on the original concept. Here's how the basic KSS works. Each wheel is connected to the body by sturdy double acting ram. The front wheel rams are interconnected with the diagonally opposed rear wheel rams. The upper chambers of the front rams are connected to the lower chambers of the rear rams. The lower chambers of the front rams are connected to the upper chamber of the rear rams. This creates two individual "fluid circuits," each comprising a front ram and a diagonally opposite rear ram (and a pressure balancing mechanism).

    When one of the front wheels hits a bump the ram is pushed upward and the fluid from the upper chamber is pushed into the lower chamber of the opposing rear ram. This reaction balances the vehicle's body motion. The system keeps all four wheels firmly planted on the ground at all times by keeping a nearly equal load on all four wheels.

    While the KSS could be used in many applications, the system is best suited for SUV's. Besides improving both their on and off-road performance, the system should dramatically reduce high profile SUV's propensity to roll over. Another benefit of the KSS is that it does away with springs, shocks and sway bars while retaining solid axles.

    In late 1999 Kinetic was purchased by Tenneco Automotive. The global manufacturing company will sell the system under their Monroe brand. Back in 1997 Kinetic reported that " production development programs are underway within a major US licensee." That Licensee is Chrysler, apparently they've been working with Kinetic since 1995 to develop a system that would be viable for mass production.

    The refined X-System is the fruit of that labor. While the Overland Grand Cherokee will be the first to use the system a source close to Jeep reports that it has also been developed for use on the Wrangler! The Overland Wranglers will be showing up in either 2002 or 2003.

    Folks who have driven kinetic equipped Jeeps, report that the system is phenomenal both on and off road. On-road the system dramatically reduces body roll, off-road it increases wheel travel and reduces articulation stiffness. My source tells me "if you think your Jeep is awesome off-road now, wait till you drive a Kinetic Jeep . . . they are amazing!" I can hardly wait.

    So simple, yet so awesome!!

    Come Awn fellas!! YEEEEE HAAAA!

    Sorry, I don't usually get too excited, but this system is BAAAADDDDD!!!!!

    Check it out!!

    Buddy

    72 K-5, 33x12.5's, 350/350/205,12-bR,d44F soon to be 39.5'x15.5s, EFI502/nv4500/doubler205, d60F, d70R. Stay tuned.
     
  2. LA91Blazer

    LA91Blazer Registered Member

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    Pretty damn cool!
    Ok, who's gonna try it first?
    When does the Blazer after market version come out?
    I hope this isn't another one of thoes J**P only mods that they get to brag about

    BlazingWolf
     
  3. timebomb1602

    timebomb1602 1/2 ton status

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    That kicks ass!! A retrofit system would be <font color=red>BIG$$$$$$$$.</font color=red>

    <font color=red>1991 GMC Jimmy 350tbi 3.42</font color=red>
     
  4. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    One of the Sniper type vehicles has a system with the same basic principle. I'm not sure how he does it. the truck is equpied with air bags but I think he did it with a torq arm or something. Same end result however he did it.
    Very interesting.
    The more I think about it the more I like it! It is so simple it's brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To add a twist here it could easily be made to control ride hight. More fluid means the higher it rides. Thing is so simple to graft onto a 3 or 4 link suspension it's commical that his has not been figured out before. Any vehicle with coil suspension this would be a easy to adapt. I figure the way it works is there is a expansion tank. Probably like a motorcycle shock. You put air in one end of the tank and it acts like a spring by compressing the air. That way you can control ride hight and basicly spring rate. It would give enough buffer so that sudden impacts like a speed bump would have that spring but not instantly push the fluid to the rear and make it like a no suspension vehicle. Now the second link didn't work so I hope I'm not reiterating what it addressed.
    There are a few problems. Bigest being fade The fluid would get hot if it was being cycled fast. Possible the fluid would airate and coause a possible situation where ride hight would be lost. but if that can be delt with it's doable.

    Diging it in the dirt with my K5's
    Grim-Reaper
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://grimsk5s.coloradok5.com/>http://grimsk5s.coloradok5.com/</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Grim-Reaper on 06/01/01 09:25 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
     
  5. ChevyCaGal

    ChevyCaGal 3/4 ton status

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    I read that whole site out of I like to read stuff to learn since I basically know squat when it comes down to it I suppose...all I can say that is pretty freaking cool! It makes sense and seems like a great idea. I would like to see that in action personally! wonder how much that'd run to do a blazer that way... probably a ton! But it'd be well worth it! [​IMG]

    "Suck Fumes Ford Boy"
    "I love my country, I fear my government"
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.chevycagal.homestead.com/steph.html>http://www.chevycagal.homestead.com/steph.html</A>
     
  6. FastEddy

    FastEddy 1/2 ton status

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    so basically the system consists of 4 double acting hydralic cylinders, one at each corner, connected diagonally to oposite ends of the cylinder...quite simple actually to retrofit onto a live axle chevy, as for an expansion/cushion tank I think a person could use a single acting hydralic cylinder with a coil spring opposing it, to cushion the circuit (could even make the spring/cylinder adjustable with threads (like a coilover shock to dial in the desired firmness) the lines/fittings etc I think would have to be fairly big, so there would be no reaction delay. another idea I think that would come into play is unless the vehicle is balanced at all for corners, or even front to rear, is the front cylinders may have to be sized/dampened differently, or the extra weight would always push the fluid to the lighter side (rear) and your rig would look like a female cat in heat...lol....does definitely sound like a neat system, and i really think it would shine on a low speed/highly flexible rock climber....just my 2 cents....Ed
     
  7. FRIZZLEFRY

    FRIZZLEFRY 1/2 ton status

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    I saw this on a rock buggy type deal that was in the TTC a couple of years back.It won that year and it wasnt a snipper.They also did an artical on it .It used air bags .The bags on oposit corners were were on the same circut and the ride height was adjustable.This thing was way cool.Ill see if I can find the issue.

    All work and no beer makes Frizz a dull boy
     
  8. FRIZZLEFRY

    FRIZZLEFRY 1/2 ton status

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    I just remembered what it was called ,it was called the Scorpion.

    All work and no beer makes Frizz a dull boy
     
  9. BUDDY

    BUDDY 1/2 ton status

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    Well to follow up on the way it works. There is an engine mounted pump that cycles the fluid throughout the system and when the vehicle is turned off the system loses pressure and comes to rest on it's bumpstops. When you start it again the system regains it's pressure and lifts itself to it's operating height. There are regulators in the system to adjust for uneveness in load, front to back, side to side, and because it's a hydraulic system the responsiveness is automatic and immediate. You wouldn't have to have big orifices, because the fluid doesn't expand or contract like air does. It's the same volume all the time. 3/8 inch lines and fittings would work great.

    Just think of it like you do your brakes. If you hit the brake pedal, ideally the response is that you immediately slow down, not factoring in other variables like condition and quality of braking components, this is what should happen.

    So let's think of the system the same way, but that the "pedals" are at each end of each cylinder on each wheel. So when your right front tire hits a pothole and goes down it pushes the fluid in the BOTTOM of the cylinder out into the TOP of the left rear wheel cylinder, therefore pushing that wheel into the ground and leveling out the vehicle. At the same time the TOP of the right front cylinder receives fluid from the BOTTOM of the left rear cylinder and also helps to level out the vehicle. Hard to explain with words but I hope you get the idea that IT IS SO SIMPLE IT'S BRILLIANT!!!!

    This also in the ideal case makes sway-bars and load controlling devices obsolete, but for a high performance car like a camaro or mustang or a high capacity towing truck, 3/4 and 1-ton TOWING vehicles, they could be used as a supplemental device to help out. They could only help this system the same way they help a conventional coil or leaf-sprung vehicle now. I am ON FIRE about this system and can't think of any reason why not to have it. It would be safer, more responsive and more flexible than any other in the world. Obviously the costwould be prohibitive, but for the advantages in performance and safety, it would absolutely be worth it. I for one want the baddest-assed k-5 blazer on the planet that would be able to handle whatever I throw it into and this system would make it streetable too!! There is no compromise between off-road handling and on-road handling if you use this sytem. It would likely improve BOTH venues of transport.

    As far as fade goes, it could be eliminated or alleviated by having a resevoir and or cooler integrated into the system.

    There you have it. I think we should flood Tenneco and Kinetic with e-mails and make it known that there is a market for a "universal-type" kit at least. I know that I'm interested in it.

    Also, since the second link didn't work for you Grimmy, go to <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.google.com>http://www.google.com</A> and search for "kinectic suspensions", lots of info there.

    Have fun out there fellas!!

    Buddy

    72 K-5, 33x12.5's, 350/350/205,12-bR,d44F soon to be 39.5'x15.5s, EFI502/nv4500/doubler205, d60F, d70R. Stay tuned.
     
  10. Donovan

    Donovan 1/2 ton status

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    I love to build suspensions and I did come up with a setup like this on paper about 5 years ago after seeing the Scorpin. I didn't think this would work very well. I guess they proved me wrong. I have a couple questions. Say your cruising down a road about 30 mph and you hit a speed bump what will happen? If you think about it the frontend hits the bump and the frontaxle goes up, what happens to the rear axle then? It will go up also right? This seems like it would ride very wierd. I know that there is accumulaters in there but I think it will still drive very wierd. Can you imagine the cost of this system? Man you are talking about 4 hydraulic cylinder 2 accumulaters valves and lots of plumbing. I worked with hydraulics for several years and they are very messy. I hope that they can do it and be at a price that we all can afford.

    Donovan
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rustbucket.coloradok5.com>http://www.rustbucket.coloradok5.com</A>
    Bigger is Better
     
  11. BUDDY

    BUDDY 1/2 ton status

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    The rear axle would go DOWN not up if you hit a speed bump. It would be very complex to plumb, but the idea of it is very simple. I can't get over it. I'm trying to figure out a way to do it in the backyard with cylinders and pumps and stuff you could get from a tractor supply house or harbor freight. It would still be expensive, and a lot of trial and error, but once all the bugs are worked out it would ROCK!!

    Buddy

    72 K-5, 33x12.5's, 350/350/205,12-bR,d44F soon to be 39.5'x15.5s, EFI502/nv4500/doubler205, d60F, d70R. Stay tuned.
     
  12. Donovan

    Donovan 1/2 ton status

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  13. BUDDY

    BUDDY 1/2 ton status

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    Your right. The diagram is clouding the issue for me, and now that you got me to think about it a speed bump would likely cause some funkiness. Then what about expansion joints in the highway? That must be why its still not in production even though Tenneco bought the technology back in '99. They have to be working out the bugs or something from the factory would have this system already.

    Damn you Donovan!! I was so excited for a while, now I'm just confused!! J/K!! :)

    Actually I just got another idea as to how this would work. You know how your brake pedal feels spongy if you don't have it bled right or your calipers are asking too much of the MC, that could be what the system requires. A little sponginess!! It would still be very responsive just a little delayed. Let me know what you think about that. I love these kind of discussions!!

    Buddy

    72 K-5, 33x12.5's, 350/350/205,12-bR,d44F soon to be 39.5'x15.5s, EFI502/nv4500/doubler205, d60F, d70R. Stay tuned.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by BUDDY on 06/02/01 02:52 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
     

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