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You're Not Gonna' Belive This *update*

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Greenblazer-AZ, Jun 22, 2004.

  1. Greenblazer-AZ

    Greenblazer-AZ 1/2 ton status

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    You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    <font color="red"> *UPDATE IS BELOW IN A REPLY* </font>

    The Carb on my truck is having problems, and since I have yet to find a someone that is a capable mechanic that can help without having to leave my truck with them for weeks, I thought I'd consider replacing it. Below are the e-mail letters that I wrote, and the responses from carburetor(AT)holley(DOT)com. I was thinking that when in doubt ask the experts. In this instance I was wondering what Holley would say when asked about how their new Truck Avenger Carb would compare with a Q-jet for Rock Crawling. Here are two letters and two responses. I think that some of the greenest rookies here would know more than this idiot.

    Check This Out:


    Sent: 6/17/2004 5:55:37 AM
    Subject: Please Help with Carbs

    Hello,

    I need help with figuring out which carb is best
    for my unusual application. I have a '74 Chevy
    Blazer 4x4 that has a '97 5.7L Vortec(Without the fuel
    injection) engine in it. The 4 bolt main engine with
    factory roller cam is stock for '97 1500 series
    truck except for the Thorley headers, Edelbrock intake,
    Edelbrock water pump, and...

    A Jet Performance Stage 2 Q-jet that is sticking.

    I use this truck for daily driving in Scottsdale
    Arizona, and HARDCORE ROCK CRAWLING in the surrounding
    desert. It needs to pass the loaded sniffer(For 1974
    standards) test for emissions but does not have to
    be "50 State Legal" stock, so long as it will pass the
    sniffer. In order of importance my concerns are
    emmissions, off road performance, fuel economy, and
    price.

    I hear that Q-jet carbs perform best(excluding fuel
    injection) at the radical angles like I like to
    drive. What I'm not sure about is how your Truck Avenger
    will perform compared with the Q-Jet when it comes to
    Rock Crawling. I'm inclined to believe that it's street
    performance would be better. Can it be tuned for
    fuel economy?

    The Jet Performance Q-Jet is 2 years old and the
    main throttle shaft is sticking, so I think I should see
    what the competition has to offer. If you had a
    stand alone TBI style Fuel Injection that would bolt on in
    place of a carb, and was in the six or seven hundred
    dollar range, I'd be all over that.

    Thank You,
    Allan

    P.S. Camshaft info for this application would be
    cool. Lower to midrange power/torque bias.

    <font color="green"> His Reply: </font>

    &lt;carburetor@holley.com&gt; wrote:
    &gt; Hello
    &gt; We do not have a carb that is not smog legal. In
    &gt; your case you need
    &gt; injection that will give you good performance and
    &gt; economy.
    &gt; Thanks


    <font color="green"> I then sent this reply: </font>

    Sent: 6/19/2004 5:18:09 AM
    Subject: Re: Please Help with Carbs

    Hello,

    I sent a detailed letter asking more than one
    question. Your reply leads me to belive that you
    didn't bother to read my letter, or didn't understand.
    I know that injection would be the best, as I
    insinuated in the letter, but I can't afford a
    retrofit fuel injection system, which would require a
    lot of modifications to make work. I need a carb. I
    said that it does not have to be "50 State Legal" it's
    ok if it is, but your answer that you "...don't have a
    carb that is not smog legal." is obviously wrong!
    Holley Makes all kinds of racing carbs that would only
    be legal for racing/off road use. Why would I know
    this, and you not know this? Please read my original
    letter below this reply, and if you can't help, please
    find someone who can.

    Thank You,

    Allan

    <font color="green">Then I get another reply: </font>

    Subject: Re: Please Help with Carbs
    Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:44:50 -0500


    Hello
    Sorry we do not have a carb that is smog legal. We also do not offer
    carbs that are made to pass the sniffer. All of our carbs are
    performance
    carbs. The truck avenger would be a good carb but it will not pass the
    sniffer.
    Thanks

    <font color="green">Is this a joke or is this guy really supposed to know something about Carburetors? His replys contradict each other and he still didn't answer anything except that he don't know jack or doesn't read and understand english. I'm calling Holley on the phone and letting them know that they have a retard /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gifpretending to know what he's doing.

    Later,

    Allan Greenblazer </font>
     
  2. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I Belive it

    Holley's response to you has more to do with liability than their technical knowledge of carburetors. If they responded to your e-mail by telling you to buy a carburetor that was not smog legal for a vehicle that you said was used for daily transportation, then this could be used against them by the EPA, who would fine them heavily, or by you in a court of law if you brought a lawsuit against them for buying the recommended carburetor they told you to buy, and then your vehicle did not pass the state emissions test.
     
  3. camok10

    camok10 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    thats still retarted though.

    I had the same thing happen to me when i emailed a place about a propane conversion. I sent them like 2 paragraphs of questions and i got a one sentence answer back, that DIDNT ACTUALLY ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS.

    i hate that /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     
  4. ZZ4x4

    ZZ4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    Holley has some very good products and they have some real experts working in tech support. They also seem to have some guys who seem to be burned out and don't spend time on really helping /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif. I've found it's very hit and miss to talk to a good tech. If you do, get his name and talk directly to him each time.
    But I really think you'll get better tuning advice on the web forums like camaros.net, thirdgen.org, CK5 etc... These are the guys that live and breathe carb tuning. I've been able to solve a bunch of carb issues with help from the forums. Never with help from Edelbrock or Holley tech support.
    Good luck.
    Oh and the Truck Avenger kicks butt /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif. Better in every respect than my old Q-jet. Just my .02.
    Jeff
     
  5. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    That's why I went with a Demon carb for myself, but I don't do extreme rock crawling. My experience with their tech has been very positive.

    Holley does sell a TBI kit, HLY-502-20S, that is $800 at Summit. However, and there's always a however, it is only rated for 275hp which I assume is less than you need.
     
  6. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    Wow /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif that is a crap responce if I ever heard one. Liabilities or not at least don't totally contradict yourself in the first line. I would try and call them directly and spend a good hour trying to talk to an actual tech guy (probably about 5 people into the system).

    Allan, since you already have the vortec why the not go to injection?
     
  7. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    Just roll your self a big fattie and you won't care. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Get a Edlebrock Quad with electric choke and a spread bore intake and be done with it. The Quads pretty well self adjust.
     
  8. Greenblazer-AZ

    Greenblazer-AZ 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    Well the solution was a phone call but, I would think that a company as big as Holley would not be happy to hear that they were paying an employee or a subcontractor that wasn't doing their job. This guy obviously wasn't.

    The guy on the phone was very helpful. Holley is claiming that the new Truck Avenger will out perform the Q-jet under all off road situations. There is a magazine article by

    http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/holley_truck_avenger/index.asp

    which confirms this claim. I ordered one from Summit Racing, and I will let you know how it works.

    <font color="green"> Later,

    Allan Greenblazer </font>
     
  9. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    Myabe they just didnt understand your letter in the first place? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
    I have a Truck Avenger im trying to sell!
     
  10. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    I think the letter was as strait foward as can be. Given you were sending it to a tech that is supposed to be in the know on the friggin thing. I think you found a moron that has fallen through the cracks and won't admit he doesn't really belong where he is. Glad it worked out for ya.
     
  11. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This

    In my experience, tech service from companies varies based on who you talk to more than you'll even believe. Funny thing is, the good tech guys usually speak really crappy English. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  12. Greenblazer-AZ

    Greenblazer-AZ 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    *Update* I decided to give the shop at Loper's in Phx a try with tuning the new Truck Avenger, but the guy I talked to was so convincing when he told me that that carb sucks that I sent it back to Summit. The fact that someone here has one for sale made me suspect that the decision to try Holley was hasty. Now I guess I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy the Edelbrock Q-jet for 500 bucks, ouch. Then Loper's want's another 200 bones to tune the carb so it will run right and pass emissions. The thing that sucks is that for just a little more money and a lot more work I could do Fuel Injection. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif What to do /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif The problem is my 30 day permit is expired on the 1st of July. If I can't get it through emissions before that my rig will have to be parked, then how I'm gonna get to work is a big problem.

    <font color="green"> Later,
    Allan Greenblazer </font>
     
  13. leadfoot067

    leadfoot067 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    you can get a reman edelbrock ...costs alot less...and im told all they r is the warrantied q-jets that have been fixed...
     
  14. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    $200 to setup the carb for emissions,,,,they are ripping you a new one, you can get it adjusted for like $30-40 at most places.
     
  15. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    Run FAR FAR AWAY from Lopers. They suck ass. I don't buy anything there unless I have too. I only really buy gear oil from them. They are a bunch of arrigant assholes that are over priced and under knowledged.

    Call Chucks Speed and RV shop. They rebuilt my Qjet and rebuilt my distributor for me awhile back. They did good work. I had a little problem with them about something but it wasn't anything major. They have a Dyno house and can actually Dyno tune your carb. they are located one street south of Camelback just east of 7th Ave.

    I think they rebuilt and tuned my Qjet, rebuilt and recurved my distributor and replaced all my vacuum lines for under $700. My truck ran WAY better with the proper tuning then it did on the rebuild I had on the Qjet prior.

    Harley
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    Harley beat me to it. I was going to post this earlier and got side tracked, but Lopers SUCKS! The "speed shop" parts house is over priced but no more so that your average specialty shop I guess. But the mechanic shop next door is not really part of Lopers. And the guy that runs it is a lying sack of garbage. He's the one that "tuned my qjet" on my old 454 K5. He talked me out of a replacement by saying he could rebuild mine rejetted, new rods, new bushings, etc. all to specifically match the characteristics my early 70s 454 with a RV cam. Seems like the cost was about $200 then too. I figured I would have a basically new/reman carb, save a little cash, and have it "matched" to the engine. When I got it back, it RAN WORSE THAN WHEN I DROPPED IT OFF! Worse performance, worse gas mileage (I would not have thought it possible) and worse driveability. Worse across the board. And the ass refused to accept that it ran worse than before. Accused me of trying to get something for nothing when I insisted they redo it again or do whatever it took to get the returns he had promised, or give me a refund if he couldn't. There is more that I won't get into, and it wasn't worth small claims which was ultimately the only thing I could do about him...
     
  17. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    [ QUOTE ]
    Run FAR FAR AWAY from Lopers.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agreed . I bought my first of 2 aftermarket Q-jets there. It was overpriced ( Holley Rebuilt on sale ) and when it crapped out they said get lost. I went elsewhere and the thing purrs like a kitten now. I DO NOT care for Loper's anymore /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  18. justwhatido

    justwhatido 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    [ QUOTE ]
    *Update* I decided to give the shop at Loper's in Phx a try with tuning the new Truck Avenger, but the guy I talked to was so convincing when he told me that that carb sucks that I sent it back to Summit. The fact that someone here has one for sale made me suspect that the decision to try Holley was hasty. Now I guess I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy the Edelbrock Q-jet for 500 bucks, ouch. Then Loper's want's another 200 bones to tune the carb so it will run right and pass emissions. The thing that sucks is that for just a little more money and a lot more work I could do Fuel Injection. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif What to do /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif The problem is my 30 day permit is expired on the 1st of July. If I can't get it through emissions before that my rig will have to be parked, then how I'm gonna get to work is a big problem.

    <font color="green"> Later,
    Allan Greenblazer </font>

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sure glad I live in L.A. no emmissions gestapo here ya'll

    /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif

    Fred
     
  19. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    I am in the anti lopers group as well. I got my q-jet rebuilt (basically a reman setup), intalled, matched to my rig and my uses, the truck scoped for anything else, all for about $450 from a local shop down the street from me. (the guy is in to desert trucks so odball requests/rigs are not a problem)
     
  20. Greenblazer-AZ

    Greenblazer-AZ 1/2 ton status

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    Re: You\'re Not Gonna\' Belive This *update*

    Ok I guess Loper's is out. I was asking for a recommendation for a good mechanic in a previous post, and the only shop that someone mentioned was Loper's. I think I give Chuck's a call.

    <font color="green"> Later,
    Allan Greenblazer </font>
     

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