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Zexel Torsen (heck, any other diff) input/info anyone?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by dyeager535, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    HarryH3, looks like your the only one that has one, or only one who has one and comments on it! :)

    I see you mention about getting one wheel up in the air being a problem. Rarely happens for me, but when it does, I'd like the axle to still do some work. From reading, apparently lightly applying the brake will transmit torque to the ground wheel, but between everything else going on when you are in a situation with a raised wheel, easing into the brake does not sound like something I want to deal with. What's your input on how much of a hassle that caused? (stopped dead in your tracks? etc.)

    Looking at the very real possibility of replacing the gov-lock in my 14SF, can't even find for certain that you can get the Torsen for the 9.5" axle. From their site no, but it looks kind of dated. No idea who'd sell them.

    Eaton posi was looking good, but the price is $650 where I can find it!

    I know there are other locking diff's out there, but with no personal experience with them, I really can't make an informed personal opinion. My main concern is snow, and with my experiences the last few years, I really need something that is extremely mild and consistent when it's applied (the less felt lockup the better) but still gives solid traction with say one wheel up. I know an actual limited slip diff probably won't meet that criteria, but on the other hand, it is consistent and smooth in operation.
     
  2. 89GMCSuburban

    89GMCSuburban 1/2 ton status

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    All you do is click your parking brake in a couple clicks at a time till you start rolling, then go through your obstacle and release it. Hitting your normal brakes will slow the front too, and that won't help you at all.

    I THINK the Detroit Tru Trac is similar to the Torsen as in it has gears instead of clutches, but I've heard the cases suck.

    If you really want it to do some work without holding brakes, get a locker. There's no posi that will keep both tires rolling (Strongly) when one tire gets air.

    If you're looking for street manners but pull like a striped ape on dirt, just lock the front with a lunchbox. Still be open in the rear for the street, but when you put it in 4x4 it'll work.
     
  3. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Yeah, I saw the tru-trac compared to the Torsen. I don't *think* for my application with the 9.5" I have to be worried about strength of anything in the diff: I'm not making enough power to hurt it, the tires aren't outrageous, plus my usage is pretty mild.

    I know most say that things like going around corners and having the rear lock when you get on the gas is somthing you get used to, but I just see that being a real problem on the snowy/icy logging roads I end up on.

    The e-locker looks pretty nice, (heck, it's only a few hundred more than the eaton posi!) but for a truck that sees 95% of it's life on the road, something that's not automatic seems beyond pointless...cool concept, but I think best tied into an anti-spin computer controlled strategy.

    Going to study up on the true-trac.
     
  4. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I see a little more snow than average. Around 300" of snow. I like my LockRight. You get used to it. It's 100x better than open even on the worst surface (ice with snow dusting). You have to get used to the tire wear. You have to get used to either coasting through a corner or applying power so it stays locked up. If you try to roll into the throttle mid turn on slippery surfaces it'll lock up and be a handful. Especially on big sweeping intersections (like a 5 lane intersecting a 5 lane).

    I used to have a LockRight in the front also. That was a bit of a nuissance when traveling in 4wd because the steering would bind up. You'd have the steering wheel cranked a 1/4 turn so it'd go straight... then it'd hit something slippery and change directions and scare the crap out of anyone next to you or behind you. Plus, if you turn sharp fast the locker will lock up and under certain circumstances would cause the front to slide for an instant. But, it's damn near impossible to get stuck locked front and rear. A couple times I'd get myself hung up in a snowbank and I just lock the front hubs, dig under the truck so one tire would touch the ground, and go.


    4x4mike has a Detroit C-locker (or soft locker, I forget) in his 14SF.
     
  5. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    In doing even more reading, the powertrax no-slip looks like it may fit the bill.

    Results here have been so-so it seems....either people break them, or they work perfectly.

    It doesn't look like it's the miracle diff I'm trying to find (that idea taken from this article ) but it may be as close as possible.

    The gov-lock, were it not for it's inherent problems, IS the perfect diff for me, but if this one now keeps acting up on me, I'm done with them. I've given them the benefit of the doubt in not saying they are all crap as much humanly possible. But this one makes #4 (out of 4) in two different trucks that have been broken or do not work right.

    My christmas wish list is something strong, works with one wheel in the air, imperceptible when driving, and automatically engaged when needed. Is that so much to ask? :)
     
  6. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I very happy with the Torsen in my S-10. It NEVER does anything strange. 99% of the time it keeps both wheels pulling together. When one wheel gets a bit of air, then I do the trick that 89GMCSuburban mentioned. Apply some e-brake to keep the torque biased across both axles. :cool1: Most times that isn't even required, as I can just back up a couple of feet and use just a bit more momentum to get over the obstacle.

    I have a front 10-bolt True Trac that I'm putting in the front of my '90 Sub, so it will be interesting to see how it performs. The True Trac is supposed to be a little better than the Torsen in conditions where the traction between the two ends of the axle are extremely different.

    I just noticed on the Trac Tech site the other day that they now have a True Trac available for the 14-bolt FF. I may have to try that out in the rear of the Suburban, since I really don't want to live with a Detroit Locker in the back of it every day.
     
  7. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    The Detroit Tru-Trac operates under the same basic design of the Torsen. I ran one for years in the rear 10-bolt on my '90 with 32's, 33's, and 35's after the factory gov-lock exploded. I've had trucks with lot's of different posi's and the TruTrac is by far my favorite posi/limited slip of all times. Very smooth and predictable on the road and worked very well off-road UNTIL you get in a situation where one tire is off the ground...........but as already mentioned it's hard to find something that's smooth on the road but will still pull with a tire completely off the ground.

    The brake modulating trick works okay. On the trail it's much better than being open, but even if you can get both tires spinning by riding the brakes it still limits off-road performance and makes it harder to get over stuff. The reason is that you can't tell how much brake modulation is needed until you are stopped and spinning, thus loosing all of the momentum. You also have to be careful because it can hard on axles (dragging the brakes puts more stress on them).

    The selectables that have the open/locked options are okay, but personally I hate driving with an open diff on even a strictly street driven truck.
     
  8. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Yeah, at this point for about two weeks I'm presented with two opportunities per day to get a wheel off the ground. With enough momentum to make up for lack of traction, it's hard on the truck (and passengers)to get through the section. The gov-lock allowed me to crawl through it. As the obstacle has gotten worse over the years, the open diff guys are really beating their trucks up to make it, and it's not going to get better.

    Curious to see what you have to say about the true-trac. With no real ability to put brakes solely on the front like the rear, I'm interested to see how it performs with the wheel up in the air.
     
  9. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    The question of "how much brake is necessary" was something I thought about too. Thanks for providing insight on that. Kind of the reason I was leaning away from that sort of situation...I'm trying to climb a hill, may end up with one wheel off the ground, how much am I helping myself by applying the brakes? :)

    Obviously it works, but (ignoring cost) you might as well be talking about engaging/disengaging an e-locker or ARB.
     
  10. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I think that the best solution is the Detroit Electrac. It's a True Trac, so you don't have one-wheel drive and with the flip of a switch it becomes a spool. It's at the bottom of this page: http://www.tractech.com/Products.htm#traction

    But I don't know if they have many applications available yet. :(
     
  11. MarcS

    MarcS 1/2 ton status

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    :eek1: :eek1: :eek1:


    I bought my front for about $400 from Randys Ring and Pinion about a year ago. BUT, I also got gears, install kit, and bearings. Don't know if that made a difference. Real nice and knowledgeable sales people though.
     
  12. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Wow, that'd be about perfect!

    According to their catalog, looks like Dana 44 and some Dana 60's are the only ones thus far that have them for it.

    The PTD looks interesting as well, but there doesn't seem to be ANY info out on that yet.
     
  13. MarcS

    MarcS 1/2 ton status

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    Give Randy's a call, it can't hurt.
    I do remember something about a D44. I cant remember if its the same as a 10 B or not.
     
  14. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I was looking at the PTD a few days ago. Neat idea, but I sure have to wonder what kind of stress is put on the sides of the carrier when the side gears get forced up onto their biggest teeth. :eek1:
     
  15. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    You could always go with a tight clutch-type limited slip.
     
  16. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Yeah, since they are local can't hurt eh? :)

    Tech there recommended that I wait for the truetrac to come out in 14SF, should be soon. $458.

    Dunno, still don't like the brake idea, but it would be a lot better on the street.
     
  17. driney

    driney 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Just curious, why doesn't anyone ever seem to consider Eaton's E-Locker? I have one in my front ten bolt, and have been happy with it so I bought one to go in my hopefully soon to be installed 9.5". Have I missed something bad about them, (other than the price)?
     
  18. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    When you have a Dana 60's worth into your locker alone... and it's not a Dana 60... you should probably start rethinking your plans. At least that's what most of us figure.
     
  19. driney

    driney 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I can't imagine that this truck will ever get a Dana 60. :dunno: I am only running 33" tires and it sees mostly road miles. My E-Locker lets me stay with the other moderately modified rigs. I definately can't play in the hardcore stuff, but I get to go out and wheel a little. :thumb:
     
  20. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Well, with the electrak coming out, I can't see why the e-locker would even be considered except as I said before, it's perfect for an application with anti-skid technology where the driver doesn't have to do anything to get it to work.

    The electrak means if I want to get on it at a streetlight, I've got traction to both tires, cornering is still ok, and I don't scrub going around corners without doing a thing. If I actually NEED the traction of a locker, I'll know I'm getting into the situation that requires it, and consciously "put it in", just like the 4wd hubs.

    At least thats the way I look at it, kind of like a manual valve body for an automatic. (yes, there are different ways of looking at things, only a comparison to how I feel)
     

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