Thanks for the info and the chart... what about pre-load on the carrier bearings? With the pinion removed after the correct BL and pattern is achieved, about how far should I be able to spin the carrier?
CK5
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10-bolt setup...final pattern check, posts #54 & #55 - 4/20/2008
- Thread starter jonrpick
- Start date
Thanks for the info and the chart... what about pre-load on the carrier bearings? With the pinion removed after the correct BL and pattern is achieved, about how far should I be able to spin the carrier?
1st pattern run...
I tried it with the Permatex Prussian Blue, and I used WAY too much. It was a big mess. Then I realized that the gear installation kit had included some yellow compound all along. I painted it on, ran the pattern...
Pics...
Drive side of the ring gear... the pattern is hard to see, but the bottom marks are the bottom end of the pattern. Looks a bit too far toward the outside of the gear:
Coast side...opposite of the Drive side. Clearly visible pattern. A bit too far toward the inside of the ring gear:
So as I understand it, I need a bit more pinion depth, meaning a thicker shim?
I tried it with the Permatex Prussian Blue, and I used WAY too much. It was a big mess. Then I realized that the gear installation kit had included some yellow compound all along. I painted it on, ran the pattern...
Pics...
Drive side of the ring gear... the pattern is hard to see, but the bottom marks are the bottom end of the pattern. Looks a bit too far toward the outside of the gear:
Coast side...opposite of the Drive side. Clearly visible pattern. A bit too far toward the inside of the ring gear:
So as I understand it, I need a bit more pinion depth, meaning a thicker shim?
readymix
3/4 ton status
Kinda hard to read. Did you mix the gear marking compound with gear oil? Just a little to thin it out.
It does not really matter if the pattern is centered left to right on the gear. What matters most is the position of the pattern top to bottom.
You might want to remove about .002 from the pinion and run another pattern. That will open of the BL a little bit too, so reset that.
It does not really matter if the pattern is centered left to right on the gear. What matters most is the position of the pattern top to bottom.
You might want to remove about .002 from the pinion and run another pattern. That will open of the BL a little bit too, so reset that.
AddictedOffroad
1/2 ton status
I'm actually okay with that pattern on a used set of gears.Remember, that coast side is more important than drive side.
Coast side looks okay. Considering that the gears might have 10K miles on them, I think that pattern is pretty damn good.
On the Carrier Bearing Preload. I build a lot of Toyota housings. I use 150 ft/lbs of torque to set the carrier bearing preload. That is equivalent to about 15in/lbs on the bearings themselves. In order to obtain that with new bearings, the shims will be VERY hard to get in and out.
Also, a tad too deep is always better than a tad too shallow when dealing with pinion bearing shims.
Coast side looks okay. Considering that the gears might have 10K miles on them, I think that pattern is pretty damn good.
On the Carrier Bearing Preload. I build a lot of Toyota housings. I use 150 ft/lbs of torque to set the carrier bearing preload. That is equivalent to about 15in/lbs on the bearings themselves. In order to obtain that with new bearings, the shims will be VERY hard to get in and out.
Also, a tad too deep is always better than a tad too shallow when dealing with pinion bearing shims.
I thought I needed to ADD about .002"...
I didn't know about the gear oil trick to thin it out... I think I have some.
You don't think the pattern on the coast side is a little bit low? Again, it was my understanding that I needed to shim the pinion more.
Also, are you suggesting that I add more pre-load to the carrier bearings?
readymix
3/4 ton status
The pattern looks a tad too deep to me. So remove .002 from the pinion to get the pattern up a little bit.
Ok, I'm going to try to pick up a used 12-ton press I found for $75 locally tomorrow. If need be, I can dump it later for probably about the same price. (12-tons are $109 new at HF)
I may as well, right? I have everything else needed to build axles...
readymix
3/4 ton status
I had a 20T and wish I still had it. You will find that it has more uses than just axles.
No doubt... truth be told, I like working on this thing. I wouldn't mind having the gear to do rebuilds or regearing for other folks, or possibly getting used axles cheap and rebuilding them like I'm doing to mine and selling them for a profit.
If I could make a few hundred dollars extra each month, it'd totally be worth it.
Are you putting a load on the carrier while you are taking your pattern (i.e. holding a rag tightly against the carrier while its spinning, the more pressure the better)? If not that explains why your pattern is hard to read
Yes... I kept my hand on the ring gear and applied quite a bit of pressure while I turned the pinion.
AddictedOffroad
1/2 ton status
That pattern doesn't look too deep at all.
You are looking for an even pattern from top to bottom. That is it.
Again, ignore the drive side. I think everyone that is commenting is looking at the drive side pattern which (if new) would tell you its deep. However, you DO NOT base it on the drive side pattern when installing used gears. You take it into account, but the coast side pattern is much more important.
The pattern on the coast side is money. I would run that with no issues.
You're also better off a tad deep, than a tad shallow.
You are looking for an even pattern from top to bottom. That is it.
Again, ignore the drive side. I think everyone that is commenting is looking at the drive side pattern which (if new) would tell you its deep. However, you DO NOT base it on the drive side pattern when installing used gears. You take it into account, but the coast side pattern is much more important.
The pattern on the coast side is money. I would run that with no issues.
You're also better off a tad deep, than a tad shallow.
I guess I'm nervous about it being off at all. I just want to make sure it's right since the truck will return to DD status once it's back on the road. I want this axle to stay together for another 100,000 miles, or until I drop in a 14BFF (if that ever happens)...
I have a lot of personal time, thought, and frankly, emotion sunk in this thing, as crazy as that sounds. This is a huge leap in becoming totally independent of mechanics and being able to fix the whole truck myself.
I appreciate all your advice (everyone else's too).
AddictedOffroad
1/2 ton status
I completely understand.
Check out Randy's Ring and Pinion install instructions. Take particular note of the "Used Gears" section.
http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/HowTo/TechnicalInstructions/Yukon_Installation_Kit.pdf
Update...fail. 
Well, I got a 12-ton press. I got a bearing remover. The remover didn't grab good under the bearing and it ripped off the outer cage and dumped the needles all over the floor.
Here's the deal... I see that I can buy individual bearings.
Question is this... Pep Boys told me the outer pinion bearing was shot, hence the rebuild. When I inspected the bearings and races, they ALL looked good, and rolled as smoothly as the new ones do.
Would it be a bad idea to run the older, low-mileage pinion bearing, or should I buy a new one and new race?
Well, I got a 12-ton press. I got a bearing remover. The remover didn't grab good under the bearing and it ripped off the outer cage and dumped the needles all over the floor.
Here's the deal... I see that I can buy individual bearings.
Question is this... Pep Boys told me the outer pinion bearing was shot, hence the rebuild. When I inspected the bearings and races, they ALL looked good, and rolled as smoothly as the new ones do.
Would it be a bad idea to run the older, low-mileage pinion bearing, or should I buy a new one and new race?
Update...fail.
Well, I got a 12-ton press. I got a bearing remover. The remover didn't grab good under the bearing and it ripped off the outer cage and dumped the needles all over the floor.
Here's the deal... I see that I can buy individual bearings.
Question is this... Pep Boys told me the outer pinion bearing was shot, hence the rebuild. When I inspected the bearings and races, they ALL looked good, and rolled as smoothly as the new ones do.
Would it be a bad idea to run the older, low-mileage pinion bearing, or should I buy a new one and new race?
no i doubt it'd be a problem.
Ok, what about bearing preload? I know used bearings need less than new ones... and running this bearing would mean one used, and one new pinion bearing. Should I preload them as if they're both new?
AddictedOffroad
1/2 ton status
Set them up at 7-9in/lbs
Ok... standard for new ones is what, around 20in/lbs?
Luckily I got a dial-wrench that reads 0-30in/lbs...
