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4" EZ Ride and caster Q's

southernspeed

southernspeed

1/2 ton status
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There must be some of you out there running this combo:
ORD shackle flip + 1" zeros on a 12blt
4" EZ Ride springs in front
Cross over on a 10blt
hydro assist.

Question is, I now have terrible steering manners. It feels so unstable. You have to 'steer it all the time and I'm too scared to get it over 30mph!! It seems like a combination really bad sway and bad bump steer.
Has anyone had to correct their caster angle with this combination?
I've nearly finished the truck after months of work and thousands of $$$ and now I'm wishing it was stock again!
Any suggestions welcome from those who know!!
 
First thought is that the U-bolts aren't tight enough. Did you use a torque wrench to install them? When I installed them "pretty tight" when I put the lift on my '90 Sub, it wandered all over the road. Once I torqued them to spec (which took a LOT more turns on the nuts!), it behaved WAY better.
 
Yeah, all torqued. 140ft/lb if I remember correctly. I 'roughly checked the toe in. I had a small degree of toe in, prob just about right. I've given it a turn out to almost zero toe in but haven't had a chance to drive it tonight. I'm leaning toward caster at the moment. And I've gotta quicken up this steering, it's like steering a big motor boat! turn the wheel and wait for the results!
 
Whats the history on the box?

I remember when my Power Wagon had a bad box, boy was that treacherous... :doah: :haha:
 
ryoken said:
Whats the history on the box?

I remember when my Power Wagon had a bad box, boy was that treacherous... :doah: :haha:
Click to expand...
well, it's a 170,000mile box that steered fine on the truck while it was stock. However, when I tapped the box for hydro I stripped it right down and replaced all the seals (and put all the balls back that fell out!:doah: ).
I set up the adjustments according to the manual, as far as I know I got them right! Guess I could look at that again.
 
hydro assist.
Click to expand...

How big is the ram and have you modded the pump for more flow or volume? The natural 'return to center' would probably be quite impaired if the ram is too large or the pump isn't able to move the ram quickly enough.

Toe-in should be 1/8"-3/16".

I'd consider taking the hydro assist out of the equation and going for a drive. A pair of 1/4" NPT plugs, pull the ram and lines out and try it. If it drives decently again you know you've found the problem.

Rene
 
tRustyK5 said:
How big is the ram and have you modded the pump for more flow or volume? The natural 'return to center' would probably be quite impaired if the ram is too large or the pump isn't able to move the ram quickly enough.

Toe-in should be 1/8"-3/16".

I'd consider taking the hydro assist out of the equation and going for a drive. A pair of 1/4" NPT plugs, pull the ram and lines out and try it. If it drives decently again you know you've found the problem.

Rene
Click to expand...
yeah that's not a bad idea actually. This is my first experience with a ram. Can't remember the size at the moment but it wasn't the 2" one. 1 3/4?? maybe.
I did all the posted mods on the pressure valve except for notching out the small hole in the side of the pressure valve which I believe is to increase flow at low rpm????
It certainly feels like it's not returning to centre and it is s-l-o-w to steer initially. You turn the steering wheel expecting to be somewhere, and then wait to get there....scary!
 
tRustyK5 said:
How big is the ram and have you modded the pump for more flow or volume? The natural 'return to center' would probably be quite impaired if the ram is too large or the pump isn't able to move the ram quickly enough.

Toe-in should be 1/8"-3/16".

I'd consider taking the hydro assist out of the equation and going for a drive. A pair of 1/4" NPT plugs, pull the ram and lines out and try it. If it drives decently again you know you've found the problem.

Rene
Click to expand...
Well I disco'd the ram today completely. It steers quicker now but is still all over the road. Scary as hell.
I haven't had a chance to check the caster yet. I need to pick up some gauges from a friend.
This is really weird, lots of you must be using this lift without trouble. I just can't put my finger on what it could be. Guess I'll have to wait 'till I check the geometry and go from there. In the mean time, if anyone has any suggestions???

Oh and the ram was only 40mm anyway (about 1 1/2")

Thanks for any input guys.
 
Something to check and I mention this because I just got religion, all the frame rivets are tight? The ones to attach the spring bracket(s). I'm replacing mine with grade 8 hardware. My brackets had started to move.
 
I'll check but it drove fine before the lift and cross over. Thanks though and I'll check.
 
southernspeed said:
I'll check but it drove fine before the lift and cross over. Thanks though and I'll check.
Click to expand...


Do you have an angle finder?? Lay it on top of your flat-top knuckle and check that caster angle. IIRC, a D60 is supposed to have about 4 - 6* of positive caster. I'm not sure about the 1/2-Ton stuff....but a bad caster angle can definitely cause the "non return to center" problem. :thinking:
 
Greg72 said:
Do you have an angle finder?? Lay it on top of your flat-top knuckle and check that caster angle. IIRC, a D60 is supposed to have about 4 - 6* of positive caster. I'm not sure about the 1/2-Ton stuff....but a bad caster angle can definitely cause the "non return to center" problem. :thinking:
Click to expand...
Am i right in thinking that 'return to centre' is controlled soley by caster? The steering box has nothing to do with it does it?
 
southernspeed said:
I'll check but it drove fine before the lift and cross over. Thanks though and I'll check.
Click to expand...
When you think about it, the front spring mount bracketry (3 pieces) react all the motions of the front axle assy. I stiffened-up the frame ends as well, probably contributed. And the ORD bolt-on box brace. And bolted-up the holes from the sway bar delete. :haha:
 
southernspeed said:
Am i right in thinking that 'return to centre' is controlled soley by caster? The steering box has nothing to do with it does it?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that caster is the ONLY thing.....but your symptoms seem to point towards that.

Also,

Any sort of "binding" in the steering components could also cause that jerkiness. Maybe the ram is non-linear in the way it's delivering it's "assist"?? A steering box that won't turn freely from lock to lock might give you sticky spots in the steering.....maybe a PS pump that's going bad and not delivering consistent pressure???

Lots of ideas, I just don't know if any of them are any good! :D
 
Greg72 said:
I wouldn't say that caster is the ONLY thing.....but your symptoms seem to point towards that.

Also,

Any sort of "binding" in the steering components could also cause that jerkiness. Maybe the ram is non-linear in the way it's delivering it's "assist"?? A steering box that won't turn freely from lock to lock might give you sticky spots in the steering.....maybe a PS pump that's going bad and not delivering consistent pressure???

Lots of ideas, I just don't know if any of them are any good! :D
Click to expand...
All ideas welcome! There's no stiffness, and everything moves freely. There's no 'jerkiness' as such...it's just really vague and wanders all over the place.
I should get those guages by the weekend to check the caster.
 
roadnotca said:
The box does have its own center, info in the factory manual.
Click to expand...
Interesting...especially as I completely stripped mine. I wonder if it's fighting against the caster angles centering motion?
 
southernspeed said:
Interesting...especially as I completely stripped mine. I wonder if it's fighting against the caster angles centering motion?
Click to expand...
IIRC the manual addresses that and the difficultly in set-up. Again, IIRC, the way its described its like a bell curve and I guess if you've got one center input of tracking from ground, and a second center in the box, and unless they are superimposed, it will seem to wander from one to the other. Sorry Dorian, I won't have time to dig up chapter & verse, until Tues.:D
 
southernspeed said:
Interesting...especially as I completely stripped mine. I wonder if it's fighting against the caster angles centering motion?
Click to expand...

is the box reacting immediately? maybe get the mrs's out there to turn the wheel while you watch down below..

i remember you researching your geometry on here and thought you had a good handle on that, drag link angle, etc.

keep us posted, i'd like to hear what you find...
 
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