The Truck line of engines, LQ4, LQ9 etc have torque managment. The program off idle is detuned from the facotry. This can all be removed and the truck line of engines makes TBI look silly.
I would do a 6.0 in a heart beat over a TBI motor.
CK5
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5.7 TBI down for the count.
- Thread starter colbystephens
- Start date
The Truck line of engines, LQ4, LQ9 etc have torque managment. The program off idle is detuned from the facotry. This can all be removed and the truck line of engines makes TBI look silly.
I would do a 6.0 in a heart beat over a TBI motor.
Why a 6.0 vs. a 5.3 or 8.1?
79rustyk10
3/4 ton status
More power than a 5.3, and a lot less weight than an 8.1. I would prefer an 8.1 myself, I like torque and big blocks.
I'm thinking because best of both worlds or a middle of the road kinda thing. I'm sure there is a cost vs something aspect too.
I had an 03 with a 5.3
Then I had an 04 with 8.1
I've driven my dad's 04 with 6.0 plenty of times too.
The 5.3 was a great engine with plenty of get up n go for the truck it was in. I towed cars with that truck and it moved ok with the added weight. Averaged 15mpg in that truck with my heavy foot. Great engine for a car or lighter truck.
The 8.1 was pure awesomeness when it came to towing. That thing effortlessly towed anything I could fit on my trailer. Living with it on a daily basis at 11mpg average was a little tough after a while. Great engine for a heavy weight build/workhorse (Larry's truck is a great example).
The 6.0 truck(s) I've driven were quite literally a mix of the 2 previous engines. My dad daily drives and hauls logs with his truck. My buddy had an 04 with 6.0 and he daily drove and towed cars with his (back in our demo derby days). The 6.0 has enough get up n go when loaded to be considered adequate. Not 8.1 power but enough to notice the difference over the 5.3. Both trucks averaged 13mpg.
These are all at sea level, unmodified, untuned, completely stock trucks, something you may need to consider when making your decision. Last I checked, CA swap laws allowed for bigger engine sizes, not smaller, so that's something to keep in mind also. Consider your trucks usage and it's weight. How powerful do you need it to be? Is mileage a concern? Cost vs availability of swap options? My personal opinion I think you'd get by just fine with a tuned 6.0, but that's from the outside looking in. My truck would get by with a 5.3 in my situation.
As long as you have the tranny to take it. His isnt going to if its stock.
The 8.1 is fast becoming an older odd ball engine. It's big, heavy and doesn't have a lot of longevity miles wise. Parts availability and cross over will get tougher and tougher.
The 5.3 is a great engine but still doesn't get exactly great milage. Nothing wrong with them I'm just not a big fan.
The 6.0 has a lot of aftermarket (so does the 5.3) and it's literally the exact same size as the 5.3 externally. My wife has had two 6.0 trucks and I really have developed a great deal of respect for that platform. That engine just loves to get used hard.
My dream offroad drive train is a nice heathy 6.0 with a 4L80 with a manual valve body, D60 dropout front, 14B dropout rear and the ORD magnum between.
Tough decision for sure. My biggest problem is I'm a fan of fast and easy
5.7 crate motors are cheap durable and plug and play. Sure they're not as cool as a 6.0 don't have the horse power etc.etc. but they're cheap and dependable. Even if you don't want to do it yourself any joe smoe can swap a 350 in a day. I know several shade tree backyard guys around here that'll swap an engine for 250 bones. All depends on what you want
5.7 crate motors are cheap durable and plug and play. Sure they're not as cool as a 6.0 don't have the horse power etc.etc. but they're cheap and dependable. Even if you don't want to do it yourself any joe smoe can swap a 350 in a day. I know several shade tree backyard guys around here that'll swap an engine for 250 bones. All depends on what you want
Are you going to make it smog legal after you are done?
Martin
Martin
You seem to like to really get out and explore, for me a "weak" diesel swap makes a lot of sense for that use. As far as I'm concerned none of the gas motors have any MPG numbers to really make you say wow, no matter how new they are, but the diesels should REALLY extend the range between fillups. 15MPG off road and 20MPG on-road I think are pretty realistic numbers for the 6.2 and 6.5's, from my experience the gas setups seem to be about 30% less MPG efficient in the same conditions.
If I was dead set on staying gas, I would certainly go LS and not consider anything older.
If I was dead set on staying gas, I would certainly go LS and not consider anything older.
Yes. So I need to research what's allowed in places I'm considering living. My intention is to live outside of smog restrictions - more for the fact that I want to live out of town a little distance than anything else, and with that comes reduced or exempt smog restrictions.
I'd probably be open to exploring the idea of a 6.5 turbo diesel. MPG and range are cool. However, I've never felt limited by the range of my 5.7 TBI. I liked the 6.2 diesel I had, as it had basically the same power as my 5.7. But, I wouldn't want an NA truck where I live now at 4800' and wheeling at about 7000'.
The problem with the 6.5/6.2 options is that they're awfully hard to find in good shape - so they'd probably need a rebuild, and I don't really want to get into that. I mostly just want to buy something and drop it in, perhaps with a computer tune. I don't want to open the engine up.
My vote is 8.1L (And not just because I have one to sell to you, LOL!) Here's why:
1. Huge torque. These engines pull like diesel engines. They don't need to rev at all to pull an impressive amount of weight. This is super nice for rock crawling something like the Rubicon trail at idle.
2. Easy bolt in installation. They have engine mount bosses that match the old BBC clamshell mounts. They use 454 headers or manifolds for easy exhaust hookup. You can use a BBC rad as well.
3. Same mileage as a 6.0L LS. Many of our work trucks are 8.1L and they get the same mileage within 1 or 2 mpg as a 6.0L. Both will get around 15 mpg.
4. Bragging rights. Tons of bragging rights.
The 6.0L is lighter and more common to find for parts or replacement but that's about it for advantages over the big block. The wiring and fuel system requirements are the same for both engines.
As for reliability I can speak to the how stubbornly reliable the big blocks are. About half our fleet at work is 8.1L powered. The other have is 6.0L powered. Both exhibit about the same for reliability. I've seen just as many 6.0L trucks break down as the 8.1L trucks. The 8.1L trucks are 10 years old while the 6.0L trucks are all less than 5. There is no such thing as a more abusive operating environment than what our site trucks are put through and it truly speaks to the overall reliability of the engines in general. I had an 03 6.0L powered work truck which I knew had an oil consumption problem. I used to top it up regularly. I left on vacation and my co-worker ran it dry causing it to seize. The autoshop replaced the engine with an 8.1L (surprised me too!!). They would not spend the time and money to convert trucks for no reason, its clear they are happy with the reliability of the big block engines as well.
1. Huge torque. These engines pull like diesel engines. They don't need to rev at all to pull an impressive amount of weight. This is super nice for rock crawling something like the Rubicon trail at idle.
2. Easy bolt in installation. They have engine mount bosses that match the old BBC clamshell mounts. They use 454 headers or manifolds for easy exhaust hookup. You can use a BBC rad as well.
3. Same mileage as a 6.0L LS. Many of our work trucks are 8.1L and they get the same mileage within 1 or 2 mpg as a 6.0L. Both will get around 15 mpg.
4. Bragging rights. Tons of bragging rights.
The 6.0L is lighter and more common to find for parts or replacement but that's about it for advantages over the big block. The wiring and fuel system requirements are the same for both engines.
As for reliability I can speak to the how stubbornly reliable the big blocks are. About half our fleet at work is 8.1L powered. The other have is 6.0L powered. Both exhibit about the same for reliability. I've seen just as many 6.0L trucks break down as the 8.1L trucks. The 8.1L trucks are 10 years old while the 6.0L trucks are all less than 5. There is no such thing as a more abusive operating environment than what our site trucks are put through and it truly speaks to the overall reliability of the engines in general. I had an 03 6.0L powered work truck which I knew had an oil consumption problem. I used to top it up regularly. I left on vacation and my co-worker ran it dry causing it to seize. The autoshop replaced the engine with an 8.1L (surprised me too!!). They would not spend the time and money to convert trucks for no reason, its clear they are happy with the reliability of the big block engines as well.
454Sub
5/8 ton status
The 8.1 is an animal, i built one 2 years ago with very simple parts and it has over 700ft lbs no problem. Now, it uses alot of special 8.1 only parts, which I am not a fan of. But they are a beast, no denying that.
Now, I was in your boat, and went with a 2000 up 454 with the roller cam, and kept it TBI. So now I have almost 8.1 HP/TQ and the reliability of TBI, which will beat ANY LS motor hands down as soon as actual water or real life hardcore abuse gets to it.
Now, I was in your boat, and went with a 2000 up 454 with the roller cam, and kept it TBI. So now I have almost 8.1 HP/TQ and the reliability of TBI, which will beat ANY LS motor hands down as soon as actual water or real life hardcore abuse gets to it.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
That's just kind of a silly statement. I don't know of a single off-road racer that stuck with tbi because it's more reliable than ls stuff. I would venture to bet about 90% of koh / rock bouncers use ls.
454Sub
5/8 ton status
95% of KOH and Rock Bouncers never touch water, and are stripped down to the bones and checked after every event, much like a Top Fuel car. Well yea, its easy to keep something running with that much money, and maintenance invested in something. Water wrecks havoc on sensors, and LS motors can be stopped dead in their tracks with the cam position sensor simply unplugged. A TBI motor can have every single sensor unplugged, and still make it home. Proving its more reliable hands down, LS motors and their FI is simply an easier lazier way to make HP, as it can be tuned via labtop in 1 single dyno run, rather than messing with jets or burning chips. Im not saying they are not great, I simply said in the desert, mountains or so on, 50 miles from the nearest parts house, a TBI will always run and make it back assuming the fuel pump keeps pumping, and the spark keeps sparking, regardless of sensors and so on. Iv seen plenty of LS motors sitting dead in the water, literally, after shorting out a sensor, motor wise they are great, FI wise, I personally dont bet my kids lives on walking down 50 miles of mountain or desert terrain over something as stupid as a cam position sensor.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
How much water do you suppose Colby will get into with his blazer? I feel like we can drop that as an argument. And besides, I hope you have your tbi ecm mounted somewhere it can't get wet cause they aren't even remotely water resistant. The ls computer has been proven waterproof by being placed in a bucket of water for a week and working perfectly. As for sensors, I'm willing to bet 2 ignition modules in a tbi distributor fail for every one cam sensor failure on an ls. That will leave you walking just as far. I personally feel from my experience that far and away the ls is the most reliable engine available short of a diesel.
I would tend to agree that the LS fuel injection is far more reliable than TBI is. Yes, it is more complicated but not in a bad way. TBI is plagued with "ghost" issues. Something flares up once and you never know what it is was and it always sits in the back of your mind with the threat of happening again at any time haha!
I've had more than my share of ignition module failures, ruptured fuel pressure regulators, dribbly injectors, sloppy throttle blade shaft bushings, EGR problems etc to count TBI as a nice and simple injection system but far from problem free.
It's hard to compare 30 year old technology to 10 year old technology. The electronics have come a long ways in between.
I've had more than my share of ignition module failures, ruptured fuel pressure regulators, dribbly injectors, sloppy throttle blade shaft bushings, EGR problems etc to count TBI as a nice and simple injection system but far from problem free.
It's hard to compare 30 year old technology to 10 year old technology. The electronics have come a long ways in between.
454Sub
5/8 ton status
TBI computers are inside the cab behind the glovebox, so if water gets that high well then I doubt that is going to be a problem anymore.
After owning both versions, the only vehicle I have never had to have towed due to a electrical problem is a TBI, as breaking tranny adapters can happen to both. So in my real world experience, the TBI is in fact more reliable, easier to fix abeit harder to tune, and cheaper to keep and maintain. I do believe LS powered vehicles are neat in their own right, but I personally wouldnt put a 5.3 or 6.0 in a truck when I can run a simpler, more powerful roller 454 with a TBI and have probably less than half the money invested, especially considering all the wiring is there for that swap already ran and ready. Just my .02
Problem free, no, less problems and or potential for problems, yes. Now that is assuming the TBI is in equal shape as the LS style in the start. Comparing a 30 yr old non maintained TBI against a LS with a shoebox full of maintenance receipts isnt fair. Mine for example has never had a problem, runs perfect, never misses a beat. I daily drive a TBI 350 truck and while its short on power compared to my friends trucks, I have had it for 10 yrs and never put anything in it except a tranny and front diff, as compared to theirs multiple upon multiple sensor and short related problems, on top of the same tranny problems. Like I said, doesnt matter to me either way he chooses, just mentioning a different opinion on the matter.
After owning both versions, the only vehicle I have never had to have towed due to a electrical problem is a TBI, as breaking tranny adapters can happen to both. So in my real world experience, the TBI is in fact more reliable, easier to fix abeit harder to tune, and cheaper to keep and maintain. I do believe LS powered vehicles are neat in their own right, but I personally wouldnt put a 5.3 or 6.0 in a truck when I can run a simpler, more powerful roller 454 with a TBI and have probably less than half the money invested, especially considering all the wiring is there for that swap already ran and ready. Just my .02
Problem free, no, less problems and or potential for problems, yes. Now that is assuming the TBI is in equal shape as the LS style in the start. Comparing a 30 yr old non maintained TBI against a LS with a shoebox full of maintenance receipts isnt fair. Mine for example has never had a problem, runs perfect, never misses a beat. I daily drive a TBI 350 truck and while its short on power compared to my friends trucks, I have had it for 10 yrs and never put anything in it except a tranny and front diff, as compared to theirs multiple upon multiple sensor and short related problems, on top of the same tranny problems. Like I said, doesnt matter to me either way he chooses, just mentioning a different opinion on the matter.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Well I guess good for you. But I'll just end with this, do you see people flocking to tbi or ls? And it's not kool-aid. It's reality.
79rustyk10
3/4 ton status
I thought it was kool aid. Then I bought an L33 powered half ton. Given the budget to do things in a correct and professional way, I'd never touch TBI again if doing a swap.
My dad is selling his 05 gmc 5.3 4x4 with 285k with no electrical gremlins to speak of with light wheeling(hunting) has had 2 transmissions though. Selling for 3500. It is a complete truck that runs and drives perfect. Trans rebuilt 10k ago.
My tbi motor has gone though every sensor in the last year by just sitting.
My tbi motor has gone though every sensor in the last year by just sitting.
