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52" spring swap questions - now crossover Q's

Pizza_Man

Pizza_Man

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Okay, so I have a 71 Jimmy. currently on a 6" all spring lift and 35" tires. I was looking into putting a set of rear 52" lift springs up front and then get a block to accommodate the rear. Hopefully leaving me at ~8 inches of lift. The goal is to clear a 38. I want to know more about the swap and things that might be overlooked. I know that the spring swap is different on a first gen. Also I'm using the stock shock locations and was wondering if I could leave them for a while after the swap until I can put together some shock hoops for the front or find some towers.
 
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I've looked at DIY4x and I want to do it more with what materials I have. And I'd like to hear some more advise from people with a similar setup.
And the intended uses for the rig are mild trail use, sand, light snow, and occasional daily driver.
 
52"s are floppy as all get-out -- veeery flexy for rockcrawling, donno that they're so good for actual road driving. I'm in the process of mixing and matching leafs from two sets of packs to make one stiffer-than-normal set, and I'm not convinced it was wise.

If you're happy with the ride you've got now, you might either stick with it, make other plans, or expect to do some fine-tuning once done. Or maybe get like some aftermarket rears made for 2" lift, which will be stiffer than the factory originals.

-- A
 
The leaves I was going to use are a 4" lift spring - the goal is 8 inches of lift. And the plan was to get rancho 9000 shocks once I get towers or hoops. So I think it shouldnt be too bad.
 
My vote goes toward sticking with your current all spring lift and maybe add zeros for the extra height. Maybe even get a 1" body lift if you still cant clear 38s and dont want to trim

I've had two rigs that I swapped 52s on. One was my dd and most reliable transportation. To quote a man who saw me turning into a parking space "man that thing looks like its just gonna roll right over when you turn." Lots of body roll. I ended up having to make some pretty stiff leaf packs to make it decent to drive on the road and then it rode like it did on regular lift springs. Overall it was a lot of work and I didnt really gain anything but a couple inches of flex.

The other one is used strictly offroad and flexes like crazy. Here is a list of expensive things needed to make it flex to full potential: long shocks, crossover steering, long brake lines, and a long travel driveshaft. And even though it has massive flex with leaf springs its also got massive wheel hop and there are obstacles that I just cant climb because I smack my springs on a rock before the tires even get close.

Overall its a lot of work to use its full potential and even then its not without its problems. Here is lots of reading material if you are still interested; http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148725&highlight=swap+threads
 
To be honest my front springs are way to stiff for my liking. But I think I'm going to turn away from 52s on this rig. There just isnt enough room in the front of my frame for what i want to end up with (behind bumper winch, push bar). I think I'll just get some zero rates and only go up to 37's. Is there any way a zero rate can be made a hair bit thicker? Like by another 1/4 or 3/8 inch? So I can have my rig sit level with the top on.

Also I'm getting really interested in crossover steering. Last time I went to the mountains my steering was just disagreeing with me (normally I blame the spooled front end or my lack of a steering stabilizer). If I could get some more personal experience info about it that would be great. Ive got flat top knuckles and am looking at the ORD kit. What do I have to do as far as machining? I may have access to a mill in a few weeks so I could potentially do it myself which is the goal. But what do I have to do as far as drilling and tapping? Could it be done with a hand drill? Id like to hear some more insight on it before I go jumping in.
 
your truck is going to turn like balls even with crossover. if your spooled in the front you need crossover and hydro assist.


You need to make up a jig that holds the knuckle flat, mill the top smooth, and then make PRECISE holes that mirror the factory on the driver side. most places will do it for 50 to 60 bucks.
 
Hydro assist was another one of the ideas I was tossing around. Yeah, the spooled front was a bad idea and something the PO did to cheap out. And its got an auburn in the rear. It does great in sand.... Cant steer for crap anywhere else.
What would be a bigger help? Hydro or crossover? Personally I would rather do crossover because the ultimate goal is to pull the spool and get something more mild like a truetrac or a selectable - like an Ox.
And when you say persise holes... Do you mean like laser guided NASA status? Or could a guy with a milling machine, drill press and some measuring tools get it done if he takes his time?
 
Pizza_Man said:
Hydro assist was another one of the ideas I was tossing around. Yeah, the spooled front was a bad idea and something the PO did to cheap out. And its got an auburn in the rear. It does great in sand.... Cant steer for crap anywhere else.
What would be a bigger help? Hydro or crossover? Personally I would rather do crossover because the ultimate goal is to pull the spool and get something more mild like a truetrac or a selectable - like an Ox.
And when you say persise holes... Do you mean like laser guided NASA status? Or could a guy with a milling machine, drill press and some measuring tools get it done if he takes his time?
Click to expand...

well you need crossover to do hydro assist. some may say otherwise, but thats the way it is.

Precise as in as close as humanly possible. the holes have to be drilled in the correct spots, and verticle. they need to be in the right spot so the cone washers all pull the arm down evenly, and they need to be right or its not gonna work. Someone with a milling machine and the correct specs could get it done. But it is gonna take time to set up the jig to hold it, and time to make sure it is right, but it is totally doable.
 
what front axle are you running? if a d44, i have a flattop knucle already machined for crossover with new studs and balljoints. clink link below
 
I think having a spooled front end is the reason you are having so much trouble with your steering. I run a welded front (same a spool only cheaper) and steering is terrible with crossover and even more so before. You might try swaping the spool for a regular open carrier before spending a lot of money, unless you plan on keeping it.

and like Chris said, you are gonna want hydro assist if you plan on keeping the spool. However, crossover by itself will improve your steering by leaps and bounds in my opinion but milling the knuckle is not something that you want to mess up. It needs to be fairly precise, not something I would try with a regular hand drill.
 
I know the spool is at fault. And I think I'll see if my buddy's spare axle has flat top knuckles to maybe have a backup. And yes it is a d44, but im very low budgeted and 250 for something I might be able to get done for free just isn't an option. But at the same time I don't want to risk my life or the rig because of me cheeping out. I'm going to keep the spool for the time being. Do I have to get a 2wd steering box? What's the difference? And is there anything special - considering it is a first gen?

Thank you everyone for all of your help this far
 
The sector shaft (the splined piece coming out of the bottom of the box) is the only piece that is different between a 2WD and 4WD box. The 4WD sector shaft isn't splined all the way around and uses a pinch bolt to hold on the pitman arm, there isn't really a way to make that setup move the steering side to side for crossover. Hence why you need to switch to a 2WD steering box.

You'll need a 67-76 2WD pickup box (no vans), that will bolt right in.
 
Alrighty. And if I pick up a 2wd box that is shot, I can switch over the shaft to my 4wd box, correct?
 
I have a 71 blazer, and was in your shoes a few years ago. I put in one tons a while back, but wanted more flex.
I ended up doing crossover steering, hydro assist, and 52's.
The only regret I have is not getting the front drive shaft done right the first time. The 52's flex like MAD. More droop than you can imagine, and even though I have a long slip, it pulled it apart twice on 2 hills.

I am uber cheap, and build most of what I can. I built front buckets to hold the 52's, I made them so nothing had to be cut off the frame, and the factory shackle location is used.

I pulled a 2wd sector shaft from a 95 2WD truck. Worked fine. Drilled my 71 box myself, had a local hydro shop make the hoses, and bought a ram from a surplus company.

I have ZERO complaints on road, run 37's with no blocks. It might help that I have 6 inch skyjacker lift springs in the back. They are pretty stiff, but I tow a 4000lb boat with it sometimes and my buddies car hauler with his HEEP on it.

The 52's were from a chevy van I believe. Used from a junk yard.

Also had to use ford shock towers in the front. I wouldn't go back to the stock springs at all.

OH, and I have a ramsey 9000lb winch behind the grill. Put that in way back when I still had a D44 up front.

Here's some pics.

DSC00011Medium.jpg


DSC00010Medium.jpg


Winchbumper.jpg


winchfront2.jpg
 
those pictures are extremely helpful garlicbreath. Thanks. Could I get a close up of your winch mount and maybe your crossover?
My plan for the winch is to keep the stock bumper, with rollers sticking out.
 
I wish I had better pics of the fab and install. The truck is currently in storage on a car hauler waiting for me to move back to colorado.
Here is what I DO have.
It's all 3/16 steel. Plate for winch mount, tabs welded on for mounting around factory shackle hanger, the back is bolted to the bottom of the U channel, and the U chanel is triangulated to the frame. I messed up the factory crossmember that is normally at the back of the 2 angles pieces, so I made this to serve double duty.
My only regret is design of the winch engagement lever and location makes it a tad difficult to get to. But I got a smokin deal on the winch, and it has worked every time.

DSC00007.jpg


DSC00008.jpg


DSC00012Medium.jpg
 
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