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6.2 NA wont start when hot

S

skark_burmer

1/2 ton status
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Oct 31, 2005
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Location
San Jose, Ca
I've been having an annoying hot start issue with my 6.2 for some time now and im slowly eliminating possible causes. It starts fine when cold but when hot it will not start. It will crank just fine but produces no smoke out of the exhaust even with the throttle to the floor and cranking for 5 to 10 second bursts. That tells me i am not getting furl to the cylinder. I wont go into too much detail but i figure shared information is a good thing so i'll keep posting until i solve the problem. If i use starter fluid (yes, i know i am taking my fate into my own hands. no need to flame on this issue) i can get it to run for 3 seconds or so before it dies out again. After doing this 2 to 5 times it will keep running.

First i thought it was a fuel delivery issue and the lift pump was failing, so i replaced the lift pump. No change, (although the new one builds 4 more psi.)

then i thought it was some clogged filters (even though i just replaced them not too long ago) because i run SVO or Biodiesel depending on what i have laying around, but that didnt help.

Then i though id install an electric lift pump (and pre filter) to make bleeding the system easier and to make 100% sure i have no air in the lines, but it still will not start when its hot.

I just read a post by batmanjr (from 2003) that said the shutoff solenoid on the IP is failing and normally gets worse when its heat soaked. It makes sense and the symptoms fit what i am getting so i am going to try that next. I'll keep everyone posted.
 
Good way to know if shutoff solenoid is bad is pour cold water on injector pump then try to start if it starts the solenoid is bad.
 
Use WD-40 as a starting fluid. Works very well and relieves the opportunity of blowing your motor and/or yourself up.

You've already made the most likely symptom diagnosis so hope you found it:D
 
BKinzey said:
Use WD-40 as a starting fluid. Works very well and relieves the opportunity of blowing your motor and/or yourself up.
Click to expand...

Isnt WD-40 no longer flamable? As kids we used to spray it over a lighter and make little flame throwers. I tried it a few months back (boy, what a party!) and it didnt work. All it did was put the lighter out.
 
skark_burmer said:
Isnt WD-40 no longer flamable? As kids we used to spray it over a lighter and make little flame throwers. I tried it a few months back (boy, what a party!) and it didnt work. All it did was put the lighter out.
Click to expand...

WD40 like diesel will not ignite by touching the flame but with a little heat or pressure it will

By the way, as far as I know if the shutoff solenoid is not the problem your symptoms are a bad IP
 
Yea, what you were lighting was the propellant. It's the lubricant, WD-40 active ingredient if you will, being burned in the diesel.


What? am I wrong again?:D I thought the IP fuel shut-off would become faulty when it is worn out and gets hot.

There is a simple test as I recall. Turn the key to "on" and remove the pink wire coming off the top front of the IP. You will hear a click when you re-attach it. This test is good for cold & hot conditions.

As an added precaution you can also disconnect the power to the glow plugs so they aren't heating up during testing. That's a green ( :confused: ) wire running from the controller to the plugs.

If you have over 150,000 miles on your IP you should consider replacement or rebuilding the entire IP anyway.
 
BKinzey said:
Yea, what you were lighting was the propellant. It's the lubricant, WD-40 active ingredient if you will, being burned in the diesel.


What? am I wrong again?:D I thought the IP fuel shut-off would become faulty when it is worn out and gets hot.

There is a simple test as I recall. Turn the key to "on" and remove the pink wire coming off the top front of the IP. You will hear a click when you re-attach it. This test is good for cold & hot conditions.

As an added precaution you can also disconnect the power to the glow plugs so they aren't heating up during testing. That's a green ( :confused: ) wire running from the controller to the plugs.

If you have over 150,000 miles on your IP you should consider replacement or rebuilding the entire IP anyway.
Click to expand...

I didn't say you were wrong.
When the IP wears out it will be harder to push the fuel when hot since it becomes thinner, one way to check that I was told is to add some thicker fluid like ATF to the fuel, i it gets better then your IP needs rebuilding, the seals are not holding enough pressure for thinner hot fuel.
 
BKinzey said:
Yea, what you were lighting was the propellant. It's the lubricant, WD-40 active ingredient if you will, being burned in the diesel.

There is a simple test as I recall. Turn the key to "on" and remove the pink wire coming off the top front of the IP. You will hear a click when you re-attach it. This test is good for cold & hot conditions.
Click to expand...

Ahh, i see. I'll carry a can of WD-40 instead. Thanks!

I tried the test and no clicky when hot. When it cooled off i got clicky and she fired right up. So i called my local Kragen, Winchester, Napa then went searching on line (Rockauto.com) and came up blank. I was asking for a shutoff solenoid and all i got were blank looks, even after i explained where it goes and what it does. Does anyone have a part number i can reference?
 
I found out the Standyne part number is S-9300. My local Winchester can get it for $100 in a few hours, or i could go all the way up to Oakland to the closest Standyne dealer and pay $80 for it.
I'll spend the $20 and save myself some time and headache.
 
Well the S-9300 i picked up is completely wrong. Time to go back and see if we can figure it out and play the ordering game. I hate this part of auto repair...
 
I went to the store and they could not reference any solenoid other than S9300, which is the same part number i got from the Standyne dealer. Apparently the S9300 fits the 6.5 turbo motors.

The solenoid i took out looks exactly like the one in the manual so it cant be that rare, does anyone have a correct part number i could reference? There are no markings on the body except for 12v and 21323 which i could find no reference of on-line.

Bueller?
Bueller?
Bueller?
 
Found it! E-bay item # 260146059081. $50 Listed as a ESO shutoff solenoid. Now i get to wait for 3 days for it to be delivered.
 
skark_burmer said:
Found it! E-bay item # 260146059081. $50 Listed as a ESO shutoff solenoid. Now i get to wait for 3 days for it to be delivered.
Click to expand...

Good luck
 
Glad you found it cheaper. Usually I stumble across the cheaper one within days after I've already bought one.:D
 
i forgot to update this with the final result.

The solenoid was bad, i replaced it and that was 'most' of the issue. But also my HP pump is failing, when it gets hot and heat soaked the pump dosent pump. I figured the issue was too much heat reduces the viscosity of the fuel and it wont build enough pressure to start. if i could keep it cool i could solve my problem, or i could increase the viscosity of the hot fuel.

So to test i drove it around, got it good and hot then parked it for 20 minutes and tried to restart. Didnt start, just like always.
So being as i dont really care for this motor and i have a spare sitting in the garage i grab the garden hose and start watering the HP pump. After about a minute of cold water, she fired right up.
Drove it around again and repeated the above procedure with the exact same results. Hot = no start. Watered pump = start.

So then i decided to try and increase the viscosity of the fuel. I grabbed 5 gallons of veggie oil and dumped it in the tank. (which filled the tank) Jumped in and drove it around for about 30 minutes and came home and shut it off. Waited 20 minutes and to my suprise it fired right up. Heat soaked pump and all.
I let it idle till it was overheating (i dont run a fan. told you i dont like this motor) and shut it off for another 20 minutes. Fired right up.

In the following months i have experimented with adding veggie oil in different quantaties and have found exactly how much i need to add to get the truck to start when its hot.
But then i thought about circulating the fuel to keep the pump from getting heat soaked.
So i went to kragen and got one of those cheap $15 Facet fuel pumps that run at like 7 psi or something. I installed it between my 10 micron filter and 2 micron filter and wired it to the dash. Now when i drive somewhere and the engine is hot, i just flip the pump on and let it circulate fuel through the non running pump. It dosent pump much but its enough to keep the pump cool enough to always start. And the best part is, i have been doing this for a long time now and its never failed, even on the hottest days. And it draws so little current i have even left it on overnight and had no problem with battery drainage. And the best part is, having an electric pump makes bleeding the system after filter changes a snap!

Someday i'll replace the motor and the new one already has a new pump on it. But if you have a failing pump and want to delay the inveitable... give this a shot. Its a cheap and easy fix that might buy you a few weeks/months/years?
 
that is awesome. Thanks for the update. I have the exact same problem you have and already replaced the shut off solenoid. Do you have a part number for the little electric pump? Maybe a picture showing the installation? Also do you have to keep the shut off solenoid powered while the electric pump is running to allow fuel to flow through the IP??
 
Last edited:
i dont have a part number for the one i got but it looks like this.
70187.jpg


I got it at Kragen i think. I was used to seeing the metal box ones, which would be fine but they didnt have any of those, only this one.

The solenoid does not need to be open for fuel to circulate through the IP. I shut off my truck like normal and let the pump keep running.
I just put it between the lift pump and the filters but i found the little screen filter was getting clogged so i moved it behind my first filter.
 
OK i need to talk to you about vegie oil!!
I am starting out and need help on what you have done!
Sounds like I have the same problem.
Except I can start it cold, drive like 10 miles and loose power, shut it off for 10 minutes and it starts up and runs for another 10 miles.
Is it my filters clogged up, or a bad IP?
 
I'd say one thing though, isn't not the viscosity of the fuel thats the problem. it the clearances within the IP itself. wornout pump = larger than spec clearances. ok when cold with still produce enough pressure for injection. hot IP clearances increase, injection pressure created within the IP falls due to increasing clearances. falls to the point that it will not run the engine.

ok, did the problem happen all of a sudden? or has it been a gradual thing getting worse over time?

if sudden onset, I'd say you've run either a bunch of contaminents through it, or lots of water in fuel. water has zero lubricating property. the plunger and barrel will score if you've run a bunch of water through it. or dirty fuel getting by/around the filter for that matter. but reading what you've said there, sounds to me like water is kiling your injection pump. do you have a water separator in line? or just filters? with all the different fuels you run through it. I'll bet theres a high water content to your bio or wvo.
 
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