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91 K5 terrible 4wd steering wander

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Screamer27

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Johnston, Ia.
Hey guys, this is my first post, I've been a long time lurker.

I have a 91 K5 that I bought with a blown up rear 10bolt. I bought a 14bolt SF, and converted the front hubs over to 8 lugs. New 33in BFG all terrain's. I was a GM technician for 5 years, and i have no idea, my GM buddy's are just about out of ideas. I'm about to the point of either craigslisting it, or pulling the plates and leaving it on a level b :)

In 2wd with the hubs unlocked, it is twitchy, the steering is tight, NO slack in it at all. I like the "tight" feeling. Now, you can lock in the front hubs, and leave it in 2hi, and it handles just like normal. Leave the hubs locked in, and put it into 4hi. This truck WILL not stay on the road at anything over 30mph. you can start to feel the wander at about 15, but at 25 it is all OVER the place. (i've seen some bad things in my time... This is BAD!) You kick it back into 2hi and its fine again, I can run straight up to 80mph in 2hi and it handles fine, just when its in 4hi it is completely non-driveable. I have rebuild just about everything on this truck.

Here is a list of things I have replaced;
power steering gear
power steering lines
power steering pump
power steering gear mounting to frame (welded in new frame, and reinforced)
new rag joint
rebuilt the steering column
new drag link and tie rods from knukle to steering gear
new centerlink from hub to hub along with the ends.
new upper and lower ball-joints
new heavy duty u-joints in the front axle
new rear drive shaft u-joints
new brake rotors
new brake calipers
new brake hoses
new brake lines
new brake drums
new brake pads / shoes
new rear wheel cylinders
new springs front and rear. (4 pack up front 5 pack in the back, plow truck)
6 new Bilsteen shocks
new steering stabalizer


i have way to much money into this rusted peice of junk, I have probably about 3-4 grand into the suspension, axles, and brakes. The truck honestly ain't worth more than 500 bucks due to the body rusting off the frame(right behind the driver and passenger is completly gone, no more seat belt mounts, tail gate supports completly gone and so on.

I just don't understand what would cause it to not wander at all in 2wd, but it will take you in the ditch over 30mph, it is unbearable at 25mph. I've gone through just about everything, The pinion angle is perfect, the only thing I can think of yet is either the newer warn hubs are locking and unlocking while under a load. Or it may be a u-joint in the front drive shaft. Everything else is new, it was just on an alignment rack about 2 weeks ago. I'm at my wits end. any help is appreacated. The snow is about to fly and the truck is stuck in the driveway.
 
also, odd thing... every 4wd truck when you turn hard left or right on pavement it SHOULD bind up. This truck will not bind. it is in 4wd, you can lift the just the left front, and you can't spin the tire back or forth with the tcase in 4hi, and the hubs locked, same with the right side. the hubs do lock, and unlock. I have had the left front hub stick unlocked once, but i smacked the hub, and it locked. I'm thinking of just throwing on a new set of hubs, one of the 3/4turn engagement kind.
 
If the front differential is 'open' (no locker or limited slip) then the front tires are not locked to each other and will do as you described. When You changed the rear over to a 14 SF was it geared the same as your original front??? Even a slight difference in gearing would make the front fight the back when in 4 HI or 4 LO. Do you have the same size tires front and rear? This would be the same as different gears in each axle.
 
Tires are all the same with 200 miles on them, both front and rear's are geared at 3.73 and it is not a vibration, its deffinitely a wonder.
 
How do you have it aligned? I'm thinking the toe could be out, which would get emphasized with the front wheels pulling the truck forward in 4HI.

Rene
 
How certain of the gearing are you? Cause thats what it sounds like to me. I cant think of anything else that would be so dramatic at even 15 or 25 mph.
 
Is your front drive shaft "timed"? Meaning are the yokes in line?
Does it do it with it in 4-hi with hubs unlocked?
How are all the spring bushings? Way to many people over look the upper shackle bushing the goes through the frame.
I assume you have a 241 t-case based on the year. Which I assume you have a slip yoke rear drive shaft. See if you can pull it out and seal off the rear out put shaft with out loosing fluid just long enough to run it on the front axle (front wheel drive). If it don't wobble that will for sure tell you if it is a problem like wrong gears.
 
I'm 95 percent sure its all 3.73 gear. the RPO's of the truck say 3.73. You can take and spin the wheels, and if you rotate the pinions, with both wheels spinning, both axles do 3 and 3/4 turns. When I bought the truck, the left front of the truck was about 2in lower. come to find out the front left's rear shackel was broke. Needless to say, EVERY bushing for the springs are new, front and rear, with new shackles. The tires are all at 35psi.

When i bought the truck the rear end's gears where missing teeth ;) It is kinda funny watching the rear shaft and rear pinion spinning in the pumpkin, but the tires don't move. so i put it in 4wd and drove it home, I didn't really notice it at that time, but, at that time the whole front end was loose, the steering column was basically laying in your lap and it was all over the road then too.

Being turkey day, I won't really be able to work on it till tomorrow, but I will check the front driveshaft for timing. I'll try putting it into 4wd with the hubs unlocked, but it normally grinds like crazy. I'll try to come up with some way of running it with the rear driveshaft pulled.
 
Screamer27 said:
I'll try putting it into 4wd with the hubs unlocked, but it normally grinds like crazy.
Click to expand...

That raises a red flag for me...

I often put my blazer into 4lo without locking in the hubs, in times when I need a little extra umph(the added lower gear ratio of 4lo) to get a heavy trailer rolling up a hill, or climbing up a steep hill and don't want to get out and lock the hubs. And mine has never made any grinding noise.

If yours is grinding in 4wheel drive without the hubs locked, something isn't right...
 
sheoldeblaze said:
That raises a red flag for me...

I often put my blazer into 4lo without locking in the hubs, in times when I need a little extra umph(the added lower gear ratio of 4lo) to get a heavy trailer rolling up a hill, or climbing up a steep hill and don't want to get out and lock the hubs. And mine has never made any grinding noise.

If yours is grinding in 4wheel drive without the hubs locked, something isn't right...
Click to expand...

I think he might just mean a slight grind with the rear at speed and the front stopped so it grinds going into gear to catch up the front shaft. Pretty normal.
 
Screamer27 said:
I'm 95 percent sure its all 3.73 gear. the RPO's of the truck say 3.73. You can take and spin the wheels, and if you rotate the pinions, with both wheels spinning, both axles do 3 and 3/4 turns.
Click to expand...
This really sounds like mismatched gears or different tire diameters, so you might try doing more revolutions - like 20 on one axle to see if the other is exactly 20.0. I thought there were some other rare close ratios like 3.70 and 3.89. You might also play with the air pressure to see if it helps. You probably need a little more in the front than the rear due to weight and you probaby don't need 35 at either end.

The other test would be to pull the rear driveline and see how it drives in front wheel drive. I once taped a plastic cup on the slip yoke output of an NP208 and drove several miles with no problems.
 
I once had an awd astro van that had different manufacture tires on it, all the same size, but the runout was different, that made it bind not wander though.
First thing i'm going to do today is take a tape measure to the front tires, then I'm going to pull the rear shaft and try driving it with the rear shaft undone.

Also yeah, the T-case grinds because the speed differences. Also this stupid thing, all of the body mounts are sagged, so the shifter on the side of the T-case likes to rub the body and makes it a pita to get into and out of 4wd. it is so close between the top of the T-case and the body, that it broke the switch that the 4wd connector is plugged into.
 
Also yeah, the T-case grinds because the speed differences.
Click to expand...
Dude that fockers got mismatched gear sets.
Also this stupid thing, all of the body mounts are sagged, so the shifter on the side of the T-case likes to rub the body and makes it a pita to get into and out of 4wd. it is so close between the top of the T-case and the body, that it broke the switch that the 4wd connector is plugged into.
Click to expand...
No offense and I never say this, but maybe you need to find another K-5. If your body is in that bad of shape I would move on. Pull all your good parts and save them for another.
 
My transfer case has always tried to grind on me. I just kill the engine and shift. I thought this was normal. 4hi to 4lo or 4lo to 4hi it will grind especially if you hesitate.
 
come spring i'll be in the market for a good body, this thing is trashed.... My frame and driveline are great, but the body is junk ;)
 
johnathan said:
My transfer case has always tried to grind on me. I just kill the engine and shift. I thought this was normal. 4hi to 4lo or 4lo to 4hi it will grind especially if you hesitate.
Click to expand...

Ummm, no. This is not normal. There shouldn't be any grinding. You are putting the transmission in neutral before shifting between 4hi and 4lo right?

I can be in 2 wheel drive with my hubs locked and grab 4hi, at 30mph and it engages smoothly.(Haven't tried it at a speed higher than 30mph) and when I need 4 lo, come to complete stop, pop tranny in neutral, also no clunking or grinding...

I know there is probably others out there that have some clunking or grinding when shifting between 2wd/4hi/4lo and think its normal...but in reality its not, when somethings grinding, its mis matched, and is actually causing wear and damage.
 
I agree, full stop, trans in neutral, a shift from low to high or high to low should result in no noise at all. mine is quiet as a church mouse when switching.

the truck should not be moving at all when switching from low to high or high to low.

I also agree with a lot of others here. I am putting my money on mismatched gear sets. Pop the covers on both difs and look at the stamping numbers on the ring gears. post them up and we can tell you the gear ratios.


Cheers,
Rufus
 
Inflate your tires to 41 psi and toe-in 1/4" and see if it goes away or stops all together. Wider or softer tires will make a difference. I didn't see anything about your lift, but a binding front driveshaft will produce similar results. If youdid a tcase drop, you made the front driveshaft angle worse.




And yes, I am still alive.
 
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