I got thinking about what I posted last night while I was at work today and come up with an interesting thought. While I still am of the same mindsight about them, the thought hit me that there is usually a couple another ways to skin a cat, (just ask my dog!). Back when I had the discussion, they seemed like they (CLORV) were new and looking to make a name for themselves. When I was on the site last night, and from other stuff I have read, the group is growing. Now I don't know how single-minded these other groups that have joined are, but fact is fact and a lot of members of these groups that have joined CLORV are gonna have cross over interests. Now maybe if discussions were raised about what I posted with these other members and feel them out and see what they think, then maybe if the majority are in agreement, then the powers-that-be would have to sit up and take notice. Now I haven't even voted yet, I'm gonna send some e-mails off and post on some other boards and see what kind of response I get before I vote.