Broke the body (front leaf spring suggestions?)

[dyeager535]

Long post, question at the bottom if you don't want to read.

Took the truck out a few weeks back, halfway through the drive (logging roads, a bit of flex here and there) I started getting a metal on metal rattling sound from the drivers side sun visor area. Sure enough, put pressure on the visor, sound goes away. Pull visor at home, notice a bit of metal to metal contact on the visor assembly and the inner roof metal. At the visor, there are actually three panels. So can't see anything wrong with the visor, and grind down just a hair of the inner sheet metal to make sure there is no contact. Go for a drive, problem seems to disappear.

Last couple of weeks, I'm doing the same general area every day, for 9 straight days. First day, noise comes back. Finally get annoyed enough to pull the visor. Noise doesn't go away, and has gotten worse. Back in camp, I start looking that side of the truck over. Exterior, the A pillar seam has cracks in the seam filler. The B pillar is much worse. The upper portion of the cab is shifted over about 1/8", so that the roof sticks out like a drip rail over the lower portion.

On the inside A pillar, the inner roof pinch weld has failed. About 1/4" gap where it runs along the front of the door frame, and seperated all the way to underneath the windshield gasket.

Keep driving the thing, the shim for the fender that sits in the door frame falls out.

I've no cracks in the frame, everything is tight, I think my problem is twofold. The poly body mounts, and the front springs tend to bottom out.

Either way, priority one is to get a new body. Mine isn't together much anyway, and an '86+ cab gives me the tilt/slide seats I'm wanting, so not much effort. This might get me to the point of installing an NV4500 too...

Up in the air as to whether I want/need to box the frame. Roll cage is not in the picture. The poly mounts undoubtedly are part of the problem, but the springs are the one thing I'm unsure of. Ideally I'd get them to quit bottoming out, but I'm stumped as to how. (already have mocked up some shorter bumpstops, will try those out because it's easy) The truck is pretty light compared to many as is, the front has the heavy duty 3 leaves, and they don't sag. Yet even in street driving, by applying grease to the spring contact patches, I was able to determine the springs are bottoming out on the bumpstops over speedbumps taken at moderate speeds. Shocks were off recently, they seemed to be in good shape.

Plan has been to remove the quad shocks in front and replace with single, just haven't gotten around to it.

I suppose what I want to know is, what options, if any, are out there for some non-stiff (not too stiff anyway) front leaves that aren't for a lift? I really don't want to jack the truck up. Based on how hard this thing rides, I'm guessing these springs aren't much in the way of being progressive, but I'd like to hear from folks on here what is out there and what people have had good luck with.

Edit: I removed the factory bumpstops that hit the u-bolt plates on the leaf springs, and replaced with factory ones I cut down to about half-height. Jarring/slamming feeling when hitting bumps is gone. Airing tires down to 20PSI (from 40) EASILY increased ride comfort an arbitrary 50%. Lets put it this way...I was able to hit 60MPH on logging roads I wouldn't have considered taking at 35MPH before...I took other sections at 45MPH right down the middle, that otherwise is taken at 10MPH trying to avoid the massively deep, prolific potholes. But with the jarring feeling gone, airing the tires down made far more of a difference than it had in the past...the ride now is comparable to an IFS truck, that from a guy who took a ride and normally drives IFS.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

I don't think the leaves are your problem.

IMO its just a matter of time until the body on a K5 is going to die. The frames are so flexy that it kills the body.

It could be the poly body mounts. My body was largely in the same condition as yours is and I had poly mounts too.

 

[pauly383]

Well first thing that comes to mind is possibly some Prerunner , or soft ride springs in lieu of the stock HD pack . Then of course some nice shocks , maybe even adjustable shocks .

Quad shocks are good when they are both valved right . They are supposed to be both valved so they work as single shock , yet providing less shock fade .

However , do this on the new body , or start bodywork on yours .

 

[jms]

So the ride with the stock HD pack is harsh and the springs are hitting the bumpstops on the street would suggest it's not necessarily the shocks. Going to the two-leaf front pack might put the tire in the fenders - I had the 2-leaf pack and had to trim the corners a bit back when I had the 33/10.5 ATs. How about a mild lift spring such as a TuffCountry 2" EZride?

 

[dyeager535]

Well I'm hitting the bumpstops with the same size tires you were running, so no matter how flexy the springs are, the bumpstops will (apparently) stop the tires from hitting the body.

On speed bumps the shocks should at least slow down the compression of the springs if we are talking decent speed, if the shocks were bad or not present the springs would undoubtedly compress to the bumpstops and then just as quickly go the opposite direction. These are those monster 2 foot wide residential speed bumps that you can take at any speed, but usually in the truck I hit them at 10-15MPH, which is enough speed that the shocks SHOULD be having an effect if they are valved right.

It will be easy enough to get a newer body in good shape that I won't mess with this one. Leave this one "driveable" and complete until the other one is ready for the swap. If I can't solve any of the suspension issues on this one, then the new frame will be getting boxed. The poly mounts make it abundantly clear that the frame is the problem for me, since the body just doesn't have the rigidity necessary to keep the frame straight. Not going back to rubber, and no cage. *If* I box the frame, I'll study the newer C/K frames and see how they do it, anything I can replicate I would.

Some softer springs would allow the suspension to travel more with less resistance, so the frame has to travel less, my thoughts were that a spring along those lines with good shocks would still handle decent while hopefully leaving the frame be.

 

[Mudstud]

I doubt you will be able to locate any kind of spring softer riding then the stock leafs. Sounds like the 'fix' to your problem is strengthening the frame- do that by a cage or boxing it. Additional crossmembers might make it a bit more ridged. You look at your rivets latley? Maybe they are loose allowing more movement then normal.

Sounds like your plan is to just use your present drivetrane in a new-used body and frame. If so don't use the poly mounts and call it good.

 

[pauly383]

I doubt you will be able to locate any kind of spring softer riding then the stock leafs.

Not in the stock height , but step up to a 2.5 inch lift and Rancho has some soft Preruner springs with many thin leaves . Add a 2.5 inch flip to the rear , and the rig will be plenty soft . And 2.5 inches doesn't really look lifted at all .

 

[dyeager535]

I read every post that came up with "boxed frame" as the search keywords, the consensus was obviously if you are going to do it, do the entire frame. New truck, that's what will happen if necessary. Seems ridiculous on an essentially very mildly used truck, but I suppose when people start getting serious, they cage the trucks, and start using flexier springs, and therefore avoid these issues, without boxing the frame.

Everything is tight on this truck, when the creaking and groaning of sheetmetal started getting worse, I re-inspected it. This frame was bare when I put the truck together, and it was thoroughly inspected then as well. You'd think at least the steering box area would crack, but that is fine. Already have the beefier engine crossmember as the previous one was cracked. The topper is starting to show some cracking along the sealed seams as well as the tailgate cracks that are predominant, so a stiff frame would go a long way towards keeping these things in good shape.

I can't believe the poly mounts are this much of a problem, but there aren't enough problems people are having that are identical to this for it to be much else. Everything is essentially stock on this truck, so no reason it should flex any more or less than any other stock K5 out there.

 

[jms]

Hitting the bumpstops on a speedbump simply doesn't sound right. Maybe I'm missing something, but are the springs just badly worn? So that they're so flexible that the slightest deflection puts them into the bumpstops, and all suspension action is gone at that point, resulting in the harsh ride? Does the shackle contact the frame? Try driving the speedbumps w/o shocks to compare?

 

[dyeager535]

Yeah, I feel the same way, no reason they should bottom out. Driving around on the street (with or without speedbumps) shouldn't have them contact like this. Flexing the truck out, at least as much as I could where I was, didn't put the springs into the bumpstops, so it's more like the shocks are only working on the rebound, not as they compress.

I can't see where flexing the suspension wouldn't load the springs up as much or more as hitting a speedbump at low speed.

I've driven the truck over speedbumps without shocks before, almost lost control when I hit one at about 15MPH.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

I can't believe the poly mounts are this much of a problem, but there aren't enough problems people are having that are identical to this for it to be much else. /quote]

Again, I think that the poly mounts may have compounded the problem.

For me, I needed the poly mounts to keep my clutch (mechanical) working. Otherwise the frame would flex so far from the body that the clutch wouldn't disengage. This is ~4 years before I took the body off.

IMO, the frames flex a lot and you're dealing with a ~30 (or 21-22 year old in your case) truck and body. They've been used a lot and were made with lower quality standards than are used today. Sure, some of the truck used to be built stronger than what they use now (IFS for instance) but for the most part quality has improved significantly.

Street or trail its just a matter of time until the body isn't usable anymore. Wheeling it might just make that happen faster.

 

[Mudstud]

In a stock arched spring I don't think its a big deal that a speed bump would cause it to hit the bump stop. If you suspect your shocks are sucking then test them out. Get on the front tire and get the rig bouncing good by puching down on ethe hood/fender. Jump off and watch how many rebounds it takes for the rig to settle down. Should be about 1.5 times.

 

[dyeager535]

Based on what is happening, if I were to run flexier springs, without hitting bumpstops, the decreased load on the frame and body might solve the problem.

Even before this problem occurred, the popping body panels was happening, and that's pretty much the norm for anyone with stock-ish trucks that flex a bit. It would be quite interesting to throw some really flexy springs on the truck as-is, and take it back through the same areas, and see how much popping the body does vs. with the stock springs.

I'm really going to have to consider how I'm going to prevent this from happening again. I'm still opposed to lift of any kind in this case, but it's pretty obvious softer springs would do nothing but help. Dump the rear add-a-leaf, go with new two leaf front springs, new rear springs, single shock, see where that puts me maybe.

I'm thinking boxing the frame may be necessary simply to reduce the body movement as much as possible, to keep other stuff from breaking. Regardless of how good the suspension ends up being.

Edit: are there actual websites for the various manufacturers of springs? I found superlift, but Rancho, etc? I'd like to see all of what the various companies offer.