Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by cbbr, May 17, 2006.
Watch the video. Opinions?
Several problems with her story:
1. She admits that she came up on a car with "some kind of lights on top and a decal on the back of the car". Hello, clue number one. This woman has never seen a state trooper before? She can't recognize a cop car when she sees one?
2. She actually passes the marked unit exceeding the speed limit and crosses the center lane twice. Late at night? Trooper is thinking DUI.
3. She admits on tape that she didn't look at the car, or into the car as she passes. Had she used a little common sense, she would have though to do so since she was passing a car with a light bar and decal on the door.
4. The flashing lights are clearly law enforcement style as displayed when the car stop is finally made at her home.
5. She passes a lighted four way stop on the way
6. The lady admits on tape she didn't want to pull over not only because she didn't know if it was a police officer but also because it could be a "rogue cop". So, now everybody should ignore a cop because they "might" be a rogue one? Can you imagine the miles long lines of defendants in court if the judges let that one fly? Every failure to yield would have that as a defense.
6. The husband says that as soon as the trooper sees an older woman in scrubs that he is supposed to all of a sudden de-escalate the situation? I guess the next tactic of good crooks will be to dress nicely so that the cops can drop their guard despite suspicious actions to the contrary. You can't have it both ways. Many decry the police for making judgements as to their character by their appearance. Now all of a sudden the officer is supposed to give hugs and sing kumbaya with the women based upon her appearance. Actions speak louder than words. Who knows if the trooper even know who he was stopping until she actually got out of the car. Even then, could be a DUI, some wacko, etc. Better to apologize later than attend a cop funeral.
The bottom line is that the recommenation for women to find a well lit safe place has to be balanced with common sense. If a woman is driving alone at night and gets pulled over, they have to look for a good spot within reason. A few blocks, maybe a few hundred yards, that is fine. What if the car stop is being done in Nevada 100 miles from the closest town? Is the person going to drive for 100 miles? She should have pulled over at least at the four way stop. The recommendation is to keep your window rolled up except for about an inch to communicate and keep the doors locked. Once the officer arrives at the door, one can usually see if the uniform is legit. If there is still a question, most agencies require the officer to also carry their department I.D. that can be shown. If the person is still concerned, the person can ask for a supervisor to show up. If the person is respectful and not belligerent, the officer will be irritated but it shouldn't be a problem. In this case, the woman over reacted and used bad judgement. You have to balance your fears with using common sense. While the fake cop story makes for sensational press, it is a very rare occurence. Most fake cop stories are urban legends perpetuated by the Internet and the media. They do actually happen, but there are thousands and thousands of car stops conducted every day in the U.S. by regular cops even on women in the middle of the night that are uneventful. The rogue cop situation is even rarer and doesn't wash. That also happens very rarely and most courts aren't going to allow it as a defense to refusing to comply with a lawful order.
6 miles is a fair ways to go. But I think that police officer definitely over-reacted upon seeing it was a 60 some year old lady. I don't think he broke any rules, but he was definitely using excessive force, lol
Excessive force? He used textbook felony car stop procedures. Had he done otherwise, he would have been foolish. Excessive force would be a beating.
Trooper said it's a marked car. If it is, Texas Trooper cars are very distinctive and if she was paying attention when she passed it and it was a normal, marked unit, she has no excuse.
That's what they look like and during the day, you can see them a mile away. At nighttime, passing them up??????????????
As for not stopping because there was nowhere safe to stop, it's hard to tell from the video. Of course they are not going to show the whole video and it's hard to see off to the side when viewing the tape, kind of like looking through a fishbowl at times, there's at least two intersections they go through. Hard call to make just from the video.
Last but not least, the female trooper is kind of cute.............
Excessive force my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's Texas and in Texas, they can utilize deadly force to terminate pursuits and yes, they do it to this day.
As for it being some 60 year old lady, we just very recently sent one about that age down to the state for the rest of her natural life on a murder conviction. We tend to not play **** around **** in situations like that because we also have to go home after we're done and until we have the situation under control and can ascertain who's who and what's what, what may seem like excessive force to some folks is just using safe and smart tactics to keep the situation from possibly turning deadly.
My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately hundreds of officers are killed in the line of duty on a yearly basis. In many of the circumstances, the death could have been prevented by adhering to proper training, procedures, and policies. Many officers die when they decide to override their training by letting their guard down. Let me tell you of two events in our area. One time some folks call up and say there is an old man sitting in his car in the parking lot talking to himself and acting strange. The old man is dressed nice, the car is decent, and he just looks like he is a bit aged. Officers arrive and call to him from a safe distance. The old man waves them over. The officers don't bite and ask him to come over to talk to them. He tries for a while to get them to come talk to him. After a while he gives up and gets out of the car with a handgun and heads towards them pointing it at the nearest officer. He ends up taking the permanent dirt nap. His intent from the outset was to kill as many cops as he could and then have them kill him. Second scenario is a disturbance between neighbors. Officers arrive and the one neighbor says his neighbor is being an ass. They go to the house and the guy comes out in a wheelchair. he is belligerent so the officers keep a reasonable distance. The wheelchair bound guy pulls a handgun from behind his back and opens fire. He also meets his maker. Both cases the officers weren't lured in by the appearances. They used good officer safety, proper distance, and didn't succumb to being lax in their approach. The officers are alive, the suspects are dead. Officers can't completely control all of the variables, but they can certainly try and tip the odds in favor of their survival. As I said, better to dust somebody off and apologize than the potentially fatal alternative. Officers can't go through life being totally paranoid, but a little paranoia keeps them alive. For all this trooper in Texas knew, the lady was despondent and suicidal, hence the failure to yield. You never know what motivates people to act bizarre.
A few years ago there was a stop in middle of nowhere TX that ended with the cop getting shot by a 70 yr old man with a lever action rifle in broad daylight... as for the stop or I'll shoot thing, don't f*** with the texas highway patrol, they don't play around. That being said they are some of the most respectful and professional cops I have um...... dealt with
edit: he was pissed allright but he didn't do anything excessive and the case was dropped when it went to court
Just posted it on PBB. Might be interesting to read some comments............
I like how the news idiots make it seem like it's ridiculous for him to pull her over for going 8 MPH over, and the whole alarmist "watch out! what if it happened to you?" attitude.
Also, I think that officer showed pretty admirable restraint in not taking her to the ground and manhandling her when he hooked her up. It sure seemed to me that as soon as he realized she was a relatively harmless (looking) older woman he was firm and obviously ticked off, but fair in the way he treated her. He heard her out, listened to her explanation and explained why she was wrong (he could have just told her to STFU and stuffed her in the cruiser).
Overall, I just don't see what the uproar is all about, she should have pulled over, she acted like a moron and the Trooper still reacted with relative restraint in handling the situation.
But you know, "it's a man's world out there" so we better have different procedures for men and women. What ever happened to women being equal?
Oh yeah, just like every other minority they want to be equal until it doesn't serve their purpose, then they want to go back to the special treatment.
And I grew up in Texas and you are taught early not to f*ck around with the DPS, they are not playing around out there, she knew that too.
No excessive force what so ever. Good officer safety techniques. Driver made no indications that she knew the officer was there. Never turned on 4 way flashers which is normally talked about when they say to go to a well lit area. The 4 way stop looked well lit.
Definately felony stop procedures and very justifiable. Just as she doesn't know who is stopping her, the officer doesn't know who is NOT stopping for him.
Proper outcome she goes to jail and posts bond. You have probable cause to believe she won't take care of ticket since she wont even stop for a marked patrol car that she passed.
My opinion she didn't want to be bothered on her way home from work. Needs to be retested to see if she is capable of safely operating a motor vehicle.
Bring on the flamethrowers!!!
And that is why I'm not a police officer! I'd have a hard time yelling at an old person, LOL
You must never go to the DMV then.......
As far as I could tell, the trooper made a good stop and probabllly followed proper proceedure. The old lady is confused by the news article by the media and the DPS, and by her own fears. Common sense is not allways common.
What I see:
1. Trooper initiates a stop, vehicle does not stop.
2. Trooper follows vehicle for 6 miles, vehicle finally stops in an unknown driveway.
3. Driveway is narrow and dark, looks like rear window of vehicle is tinted making it impossible to determine the number of individuals inside and wether they are armed.
4. Trooper orders driver out, secures driver, and asks why she did not stop.
5. Driver explains calmly at first but increases in emotion, tone of voice raises dramatically.
6. Man comes quickly out of house towards trooper & driver, woman yells hysterically for man to aid her. (in my estimation from a husband's point of view - I know that tone). Trooper warns man to stay back, one hand is trying to control driver, other is holding flashlight leaving him temporarily vunerable. There are no back up officers on site.
That was the cut off point of the footage. Based on that I'd say she was overly emotional and paranoid to begin with. She made choices that were poor and escalated an otherwise routine stop. In her interviews she refers to society as being run by men (a man's world) which shows she has a victim's mentality. The case went to a Grand Jury and was dimissed.
I think the female trooper summed it up nicely.
Haha stupid cop, I bet youd think different it that happened to your 60+ mother, wouldnt you? I also like how that DPS trooper lady speaks both ways out of her mouth. Now if it was a 20 year old like me I would fully understand.
I think he was fully justified in what he did. That woman is either not real bright or not real sane.
Well here's my perspective. I do understand the adrenaline was a flowing through the deputies veins but, again to me, I think he was over the top.
As for the woman, we have had a few of the bad person officers round these parts and if I were her there's no way in hell I would have stopped short of home or a convenience store.
There's way to many computers out there that can duplicate the decals on a patrol car etc., etc., etc.
As a Texan, I fear and respect the DPS. They are a cut above the average city cop, and are far and away more profesional and intimidating. If DPS raided your party in high school, you didnt bother running, cause they would catch you.
I can understand the lady's fear though, east texas has some scary and wierd ****ing people that you really cant understand until you visit towns like Jasper and Alto. If she hadnt previously passed the patrol car I would fully side with her but bubba is 100% right that TX DPS cars can be spotted from a mile away.
Oh well its water under the bridge now...
Hell, us cops near the stateline also fear and respect Texas DPS. We always dream about the day we cross the line in pursuit, but keep in our minds that once we've crossed that stateline, it's time to start backing off cause the pursuit will be terminated shortly................................
I'd hope that was sarcasm cause if not, that's about the stupidest damn thing I've read in awhile...............................
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