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Can someone read my winaldl datalog?

camok5

camok5

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Here is an attachment of my datalog from winaldl It runs fine for a little while then it starts surging. I know its kinda hard to read in notepad but for some stupid reason I cant get it to open with excel. Can someone tell me what might be causing the surging. I have gone through every sensor already and the 02 is new. this was takin while in park and after the engine had been warmed up. Also as soon as it starts doing it the old high gear, closed loop flags come on.
 

Attachments

  • 20071028_121125_LOG.txt
    15.9 KB · Views: 37
If you look at the O2 data, it starts off at about .4 volts, but by the end of the recorded period it is up at closer to .7 volts. Your BLMs also started off at 128 where they should be, but as the O2 voltage increased, your BLMs decreased...

Try disconnecting the 02 sensor all together, and see how it behaves, if the idle smooths out or not... You will get a code, but it will tell you if it is the 02 sensor causing the surge or not.
 
I will give that a shot. I was hoping it wasnt the o2 because its a brand new one and the one I had in there before wasnt that old. Where should the volts be with the 02? I also noticed that the blms were dropping the same time the engine would start surging. I dont know how to read all of the data yet but from what I can tell the engine looks good until the surging starts.
 
Good combustion at an idle will give an average of approx .4 volts which indicates a 14.7:1 A/F ratio. .4 volts is also the assumed voltage if the 02 sensor fails to transmit data to the ECM.

The higher the voltage given the richer the detected mixture, and the lower the BLMs, the more the ECM is leaning out the mixture. By the time you've hit 108 BLMs, the ECM has leaned it out as far as it possibly can, and should have set rich code.

Pull your plugs and take a look at them, see if they are covered in soot, or if they are a nice golden tan color.

Your problem is well explained by the engine running rich, and there are a couple of things that can cause a rich condition, from an overly high CTS reading (appears ok at 80 odd degrees), to high fuel pressure due to a ruptured regulator, to poor injector spray pattern, timing that is outta whack or even an air restriction somewhere.

The way I'd tackle this problem would be to unplug the 02 sensor first and see what the ECM does, that'll tell your right away if it is infact the 02 sensor that is causing the stumble. If it does fix improve your idle quality, then we've confirmed that it has something to do with what the 02 sensor is reading.

If it is the problem, then I'd take a look at the timing next. I'd set the initial timing at approx 5 degrees BTDC with a stock TBI engine and chip rather than the suggested 0 degrees (the stock timing curve is pretty conservative), and confirm that everything is in good operating condition (hot blue spark, properly gapped plugs that are not fouled, good plug wires etc).

If the timing does not correct the problem I'd be looking at the fuel system. First things first I'd check the injectors, make sure they have a nice spray pattern, and that they are not dribbling any. I'd also install a fuel gauge to check on the pressure levels to make sure that you are not running too much pressure. It should be regulated to approx 12 - 15 PSI.

If the fuel system appears good, and doesn't correct the problem, I'd also suggest you check to make sure that nothing is restricting air-flow into your engine, be it a contaminated air filter, incorrectly adjusted valves etc.

If all of that stuff checks out, then I'd be going back to the 02 sensor and getting a brand new AC-Delco unit. Aftermarket 02 sensors, particularly Bosch units, are absolute garbage.

Keep us posted on your findings!
 
I think the numbers for the CT that are showing are not converted, because while I was driving it around winaldl was showing temps around 190 degrees. I Will take another datalog reading tomorrow and try hooking up my old 1 wire o2 to see if it makes any difference plus keep an eye on the CT's.
 
Camo. I deleated my first post because I realised that was raw data you posted and not converted. I was thinking that was the temp reading instead of the raw values.
I think those readings for the CTS are about right.
 
yeah, gotta organize the data a bit by tabbing things over a bunch and shortening titles, but the converted data is also in your document. Started closer to 90 degrees, and dropped down to the low 80s. The drop in temperature is another indication of a rich condition in an engine, as a rich mixture does not burn as hot as a lean mixture.

In the future, I'd suggest you uncheck everything but the sensor data for logging, the rest of it is usually just gobbly goop. Sometimes you want flag data to see when different flags are being set, but generally speaking it isn't necessary
 
What's your fuel pressure? For some reason it's way rich so the computer is trying to lean it out but it hit its limit at 108. Once the computer hits its adaptive limit they do all kinds of strange things.
Can you give us a little background on your combination and what you've done.

EDIT

Just found some older posts looks like your running big block injectors with 13 psi of fuel pressure.
What chip are you running? Big block injectors obviously require a custom chip

Try bumping yor fuel pressure back to 11 pounds and see if the BLM numbers come back up, ideally you want the BLMs in the 120-135 range.
 
The chip is from Brian at TBIchips.com, he burned me 3 chips till it was set up right. When the truck was running good the BLM's where at 128 which I was told is optimum. I think the numbers are off because of something else which is what I'm in the process of trying to figure out. I will take another datalog with only the sensor data to make it a little easier to read. Also I will take one of it running good and one with it just idling in park so you can see the problem area.
 
Here are the datalogs I just got. Sorry still cant get them lined up right but I just used the sensor data so it will be a little easier to read. First one is with the truck in park and idling warmed up(it starts up and runs fine for a little bit then starts surging). The second one is driving around.
 

Attachments

  • idling_LOG.txt
    5.7 KB · Views: 14
  • driving log.txt
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Only one of the files works. By the looks of stuff I'd cut the fuel pressure back 1-2 pounds and add 3-4 degrees of timing and see what happens. All of the sensors appear to be working right, it's just rich in a lot of places.
 
Russell said:
If you look at the O2 data, it starts off at about .4 volts, but by the end of the recorded period it is up at closer to .7 volts. Your BLMs also started off at 128 where they should be, but as the O2 voltage increased, your BLMs decreased...

Try disconnecting the 02 sensor all together, and see how it behaves, if the idle smooths out or not... You will get a code, but it will tell you if it is the 02 sensor causing the surge or not.
Click to expand...

I tried unplugging the o2 and yes the surging stopped. My next step is to put my old 1 wire (I know it works) o2 in and see what happens. If none of this helps then I'm going to try what bigblock72 said. Also I didnt have a problem opening both attachment so I'm not sure whats up with that.
 
The other attachment finally came up for me. Looks like the idle MAP values are a little high, usually idle with a mild cam I see around 25-30 on the MAP reading. This may be caused by the base timing being low, also check for any vacuum leaks.

If nothing else works try sending these files to tbichips and see what he recommends, he know his stuff will for sure be able to get you squared away.
 
bigblock72 said:
The other attachment finally came up for me. Looks like the idle MAP values are a little high, usually idle with a mild cam I see around 25-30 on the MAP reading. This may be caused by the base timing being low, also check for any vacuum leaks.

If nothing else works try sending these files to tbichips and see what he recommends, he know his stuff will for sure be able to get you squared away.
Click to expand...

It does have a mild cam in it. It is set at zero for now and I had planned on bumping up the timing once I got all the bugs worked out of the engine. It still only has about 1000 miles on it since I built it. I have checked tons of times for vacuum leaks and cant find any. I have already sent the files to TBIchips but they are out of the office for the rest of the week at the semi show.
 
Well I still have not had a chance to switch my o2 sensor out yet but I did up my timing to 4 degrees and dropped my FP down to 11 and it didnt help with the surging.
 
Dropping fuel pressure that much should have had a pretty significant impact on the engine -- Just for kicks and giggles, try richening it up a bunch and see what happens then.... Looking more and more like a bad 02 sensor though
 
That is kind of strange it didn't make any difference. A wideband meter would be nice right about now to see what's really going on.
 
Looks to me like your just running rich. The IAC moves, the MAP is consistent with the RPM's/IAC, but the O2 stays rich.

Even with the slow refresh rate of the TBI ECM (every 1.2 seconds?) you should "catch" the O2 sensor on both sides of stoich, that's how they operate. The narrowband O2's are inaccurate at anything other than 14.7:1 mix, and since an engine is never running at exactly that, the O2 sensor is ideally bouncing on either side of rich/lean, and yours isn't.

This is probably inconsequential, but is the RPM in the log correct? My understanding is that all the TBI and early TPI setups automatically go to 1000RPM when in data mode. I know mine does with winALDL.
 
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