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ENGINES!!! several possible builds on the "differnt" list

original balzer

original balzer

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Just a few ways I have thought about building some chevy engines, that would be a bit more non typical. Feel free to criticize comment and add your own ideas.

Now we have all herd "theres no replacement for displacement" but lets throw that out for a minute.

First engine build would be more for a light car that wants to go fast.

Start with a splayed, 4 bolt main, 350 block, one piece rear main. Add a forged crankshaft from a 94+ 276 (4.3L V8, yes they made one) right off the start you have a modern 302 sbc ( like the one in 67 camaros that spanked all the other trans am race cars) The build would need to be TOTALLY balanced and use all the best parts, because we're gunna add boost later. The bottom end need to be bullet proof. Next add the biggest sbc heads available. Port, polish and match them to a big single plane intake. All roller valve train, and heres the other kicker. A custom grind cam, to build power up wards of 12,000RPM! and the final ingredient twin turbos with 8-14lbs variable boost.

Now this engine is only going to have a 3" stroke its gunna rap up faster than a wasp on speed. Its also going to have a VERY high red-line. They have claims of 8500-9000RPM on basically stock chevy 302's IN THE 60's! I have had people argue with me about never getting a push rod engine up that high in the RPM's, but I honestly believe its doable with todays tech.
 
My second build is alot more simple. A 427 big block is basically a 396 crank in a 454 block, witch as in the other engine would be big bore short stroke. Unquestionably fast engines. drag racers have used the big bore short stroke for years up until lately, where stroker engines have become the norm. I don't actually think strokers have the advantage in a drag race. It just seams to me, its like the old in-line six gas engines they were usually long stroke small bore and had gobs of low end torque, and not much speed. So I question why someone wants to build a "stroker" engine to put in a drag car.

(On to the engine Build)
BUT A 4X4....you want low end torque, with that being said why not build a stroker 427 with a 396 block and a 454 crank. Again its gunna be a small bore long stroke engine. TORQUE! Thats what were after in this build. You can add all the other goodies you want and still have a fast engine. It will have power lower in the RPM band than the normal 427. Dare I say closer to diesel low end torque? Idling along in low range, it comes to a rock and just powers over it without throttle input........ Yea that would be cool with big tires and a heavy rig.

To clarify I'm not gunna say this build would be as good or better than a diesel for low end grunt. Its just a better engine to produce the power lower in the RPM's.
 
It is certainly possible to spin a short stroke sbc to 12-12.5. This is common for NHRA Comp Elim cars. Only problem is the heads you need for that are stupid expensive and require LOTS of flow bench time.

Which brings us to cubes! BBC are cool, but heavier than the small block. Why not a TBI-383 stroker? lots of low end, with parts availbility.
 
As far as stroker motors not going fast um well hows 9.5et at 139mph on a 410 sb sound?
 
slyguy_22 said:
As far as stroker motors not going fast um well hows 9.5et at 139mph on a 410 sb sound?
Click to expand...

Read again and again until you find where I said strokers are not fast. And by the way a 410 is closer to an equil bore and stroke, is it even a stroker? sounds like a bored 400 small block to me. witch would not be a stroker engine.

And to further clairify technicaly a "stroker" engine is one where a longer stroke has been added to a smaller engine in the same family. 383 is a 350 block with a 400 crank. (technicaly you have to bore the 350 block as well to get 383) likewize a normal 427 would be a destroked 454 but a 454 crank in a 396 block would be a stroker 427. I know it gets confuzing but try to keep up or at least just nod your head.

And finaly, yes strokers can be fast in a drag car. All im saying is that "I believe" a short stroke big bore engine is fastER than a long stroke small bore engine.

For example and totaly fabricated. Say you have 2 sbc's 1 has a 3" stroke and a 4" bore the other has a 4" stroke and a 3" bore they should be the same displacement. Other than that they are built totaly identical by the same guy. And lets just presume they come out with identical HP numbers.
THEN we put these engines in Identical cars and time trial them.

Well the faster engine is the one that gets to redline first, right? Witch ones gunna do it?

But I promise you they wont come out the same HP and TQ so its a bust.
 
a local dragster, i know(he holds some nhra records and his office has 100's of nhra trophys) he's built a 454 destroked to iirc @330 cid.12g's rpm easy, but he also told me that he had about $45k in the motor:-O...... 85/86 firebird full fiberglass cept tub and tube chassis 2 speed pg...dont remember what it runs in 1/4...but its fast!
 
i think your "stroker 427" idea would rap faster, but would be as good for low torque as a 454 with all the same parts.
 
Ok Smart Guy: Thought you wanted different input and opinions, but i guess i was wrong, didnt you write this though? "Feel free to criticize comment and add your own ideas." Your own words i do believe. Oh and this "So I question why someone wants to build a "stroker" engine to put in a drag car."

My answer! We built a 410sb ford yeah its a ford stroker, (351 bored & stroked for those who cant figured it out!) Whether its a ford chevy dodge or whatever dont matter its the point that a stroker motor can kick some butt and do it pretty quick.
BTW we've built a 347 stoker(302), 396 stroker(351), 410 stroker(351). 383 stroker(350 chevy block). My personal ride is a 400sbc bored 0.30 =406 with TBI unit. (FYI Thats a chevy motor:) I prefer chevy.
 
slyguy_22 said:
Ok Smart Guy: Thought you wanted different input and opinions, but i guess i was wrong, didnt you write this though? "Feel free to criticize comment and add your own ideas." Your own words i do believe. Oh and this "So I question why someone wants to build a "stroker" engine to put in a drag car."

My answer! We built a 410sb ford yeah its a ford stroker, (351 bored & stroked for those who cant figured it out!) Whether its a ford chevy dodge or whatever dont matter its the point that a stroker motor can kick some butt and do it pretty quick.
BTW we've built a 347 stoker(302), 396 stroker(351), 410 stroker(351). 383 stroker(350 chevy block). My personal ride is a 400sbc bored 0.30 =406 with TBI unit. (FYI Thats a chevy motor:) I prefer chevy.
Click to expand...


Wow your quick to get pissy. Heres the deal man, first you acted like I said a stroker couldn't be fast, I never said they couldn't, then you said 410 stroker on a chevy forum, you say you prefer Chevy's so you should know, that don't make sense in the Chevy engines. To witch I said oh its a ford that don't count (yes I admit it was a half assed remark, and sarcasm is hard to type) because, I assumed being on a chevy forum you would be talking about a chevy, since your first arrogant reply DID NOT SPECIFY it was a ford, that was both of our mistakes.

Now in real life yes you have quite the little stroked ford there and good for you. It does count in real life, Ill give you that. My mistake for assuming, your mistake for lack of details. Now if you would have said it was a ford and not assumed I thought strokers are not fast, I would have said "cool engine build you got there!"

A better world would be one were we dropped our arrogance and talked tech.
 
Yes i agree tech is better. anyhow on a side note, it is possible to make a 410 sb chevy from a 350 block, i dont know the exact specs off the top of my head though. Ive always been fond of stroked motors, 427sbc 434sbc and the 454sbc which is probly my favorite (i probly will never get the chance to build one.) Thats just me though, it just seems to me with a stoker motor you get a more of a broad power band. most of the destroked motors ive seen seem to have a less usable (everyday) power.

I Would love too see the results of a 350 say in a short bed s10 2wd 4 link destroked to say 302 or whatever your pleasure is then run it and get an average et & speed then in the same setup run it with a 383 stroker and do a side by side comparison and see which did better. Then you would have a true way of telling if stroke and cubes is better or if high rpm short stroke is better.
 
a few engines i have built are as follows:
a long rod 400sb chevy. stoke stroke 6in rods custom pistons, 9:1 comp, advertised 260 dur comp cam, dual plane intake, dart heads sportsmans with mild port work. very broad torque range, engine pulls hard all the way to 6000rpms.

engine i built for a freinds drag car recently: 350sb chevy block bored and stroked to a 383, full race prep on the block, debur etc. crower forged superlight crank 3.750 stroke, 6 inch rods, je pistons 13:1 compr, a very radical high lift roller cam, fully ported afr 227 race heads, single plane holley intake 970cfm holley hp carb. engine pulls from 5000 to 8000 rpms, i havent had the time to get it on the dyno yet, but i guestimate around 640hp. it did push a 72 nova to a 9.87 in the 1/4 at 138mph. hopefully ill get to dyno the engine in the next couple months when the car is getting some more work done.

the engine im putting together for my own drag car works out to be a 363ci. starting with a bowtie block, bored to 4.155, a custom lightweight winberg crank with a 3.345 in stroke. 16:1 compression, aluminum rods 6 1/4 long, custom ground cam with 55mm journals, firing order swap for 4 and 7 cylinders, .907 jesel lifters, 18degree bowtie heads that have extensive had porting and flow 380cfm on the intake, sheet metal intake with 2 prepped holleys. this engine should turn around 10k rpm and over 900hp. these heads came off a similair engine but with 30ci less displacment so a 332 and that engine dyno'd 886hp at 9800rpms.

my first engine is obviously the best choice for a 4x4 since thats what i put it in my blazer :)


something that most poeple dont realize either with engines is the cost. my 400 cost a little less than 4k to build complete.

the 383 i have around 8k in it as i got some good deals on some of the major parts.

my 362 isnt near coomplete yet, i still need to buy the block, rods and pistons, cam and some odds and ends. so far there is 35k in this engine. when its said and done this will be a 55k race engine.

i have a couple more combos im working on also for street apps and towing.
 
slyguy_22 said:
Yes i agree tech is better. anyhow on a side note, it is possible to make a 410 sb chevy from a 350 block, i dont know the exact specs off the top of my head though. Ive always been fond of stroked motors, 427sbc 434sbc and the 454sbc which is probly my favorite (i probly will never get the chance to build one.) Thats just me though, it just seems to me with a stoker motor you get a more of a broad power band. most of the destroked motors ive seen seem to have a less usable (everyday) power.

I Would love too see the results of a 350 say in a short bed s10 2wd 4 link destroked to say 302 or whatever your pleasure is then run it and get an average et & speed then in the same setup run it with a 383 stroker and do a side by side comparison and see which did better. Then you would have a true way of telling if stroke and cubes is better or if high rpm short stroke is better.
Click to expand...

you would need a 4.060 bore and a 3.9ish stroke for a 410, but i dont htink that stroke would fit in a production 350 block, it might after extensive machine work, and the right rods.

as far as your comparison above, the engine that suits the chassis setup of the truck will win, it may be the stroker or the destroker.
 
Yeah i would never attempt to build a 410 from a stock gm block, u would need a dart block or one of the other aftermarket block mfgs. I agree on price though. my 406 tbi motor cost me approx 4K to build. its a great motor with excellent power. the torque on this thing is unreal. My buddy put a 383 stroker in his 95 TA and that has at least 8500.00 in it.
 
Just my own obervations;

I have 2 BB Fords. The 429 has a stroke of 3.58. The 460 has a stroke of 3.85. The 429 revs much quicker than the 460. I won't compare the difference in power between the 2, cause the 429 is an old high compression motor, and the 460 is a later model FI.

The last stroker I worked on was a 409 with a turned down 454 crank. It went into a 63 SS Impala convertible. With a T-10 4 speed, and 11" slicks, it would daylight the front tires.
 
Just from a spectators observasions, stroker engines seam to help heavier cars or trucks on the drag strip. Witch makes sence, they need the low rpm torque to get them moving.

I have noticed first hand through a friend, that you can have too much power for the car your building. I know that sounds stupid but bear with me and Ill splain it. My friend started building a 78 chevy luv to drag race. it started with a simple 350 swap and progressed into a 4 linked big block monster after a few years. in between that time the truck peaked in speed at the track then took a dramatic fall and lost speed. A few years ago he had built a 327 and dropped it in the s10. He noticed he couldnt get traction so a simple set of ladder bars solved it and it was running in the high 9's.

After that season he wanted to go "all out" as he said and thats when the back half got a tube chassis with 4 link and a ford 9". the bed was just glass skins. The front got a 10 pt cage and glass 1 piece tilt body work. A supercharged 540 BBC by merlin was dropped in. After all was said and done it actualy lost speed once again due to traction issues. It just breaks the tires loose too easily. He has tried all kinds of suspention tuning but wont belive me when I tell him he needs to add weight. My thought is its too powerful and too light. His thought is its dumb to spend all that time makeing it light just to turn around and add weight. He totaly thinks Im up in the night on this but this whole season he couldnt get traction.
 
The problem with your friends truck isn't that its too light (none such thing in my mind) its that it has too much torque for its weight.
Not saying it might not run better at the track by adding some weight, but the real problem is there is too much torque that breaks the tires loose. It'd work even better keeping it light, and tuning the motor so that it makes less low end torque in exchange for some higher RPM horsepower.
 
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