What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

Help With Zero-Rate Install--Pic's Added 3/20/11

P

prairie

1/2 ton status
 Premium
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Posts
254
Reaction score
1
Location
NE Nebraska
After being sidelined with a health issue all winter, I finally decided to hire a guy to install a few things on my 1984 M1008 CUCV (1 ton pickup). He's working in my shop, and seems to know what he is doing.

The Plan: 1" Zero-Rates, 1" Body Lift, Poly Body Mounts, Steering Box Brace, fender trimming, and 315/70R17 (35") Treadwright Guard Dog MT's on Pro-Comp Black Steel wheels.

The Problem: Once the Zero-Rates were installed, The Dana 60 front axle appears to set crooked, in stock form it appeared to sit square and correctly.
The passenger side, by appearances and measurement from the fenders, sits about 1 1/2" farther back than the drivers side. The center hole on the Zero-Rates was used, original spring plates with sway bar removed, and new U Bolts.
The pickup drove fine in stock form, but would in 2WD pull a little to the right when the hubs were locked, which was attributed to the Power-Lok limited slip. When locked in 4WD, the pull to the right was less but still noticeable. When the hubs were unlocked no pull was noticeable. The guy who installed the Power-Lok said that was not unusual. He runs an off-road and truck shop and rebuilds axles and installs lockers of all sorts on a regular basis.
We have measured everything imaginable, the frame does not appear to be sprung, and things seem to check out OK except for the tire position in relation to the passenger side fender.
Could the fenders be out of alignment? By appearances they fit a little different on each side, but not majorly.
Could the cab be out of alignment with the frame? The front bumper does not line up with the cab perfectly, 3/4-1" gap on one side, and flush with the other.
Could the passenger side spring have more sag than the drivers side? The passenger side does measure 3/4-1" lower than the drivers side, which I understand is not unusual for these pickups. I do have another set of used springs, poly bushings and greasable bolts that could be installed.
We dropped the axle again and can't see anything wrong with the install.
Any ideas and suggestions would be appreciated!!!
 
Last edited:
Bump for somebody that knows a solution to your problem.


That is not right. Hope you get it figured out soon though.

Good luck.
 
all you can do is go back and make sure all body bushings are correct, lift pucks, and 1" blocks are set right. You are going to be told 1.5" off sounds like you have one 1" block set wrong. There are 3 holes, one is 1.5" off center.

Pictures would help otherwise it's kinda on you to double check everything.
Good luck and keep up updated.
 
I would suspect that the zero rates weren't installed correctly. Another possiblity is a broken center pin letting the axle move around. Time to take the u-bolts loose and investigate. It could be any number of things. I don't think it's unusual for the frames on these trucks to be slightly out of square enough to cause one wheel to be farther ahead than the other, but 1.5" seems to be way too much. I also think it's ironic that the zero rates are made to move the axle up to 1.5" forward or backward. What about the rear wheels? Are they the same way? One other thing I can think of is the spring eye bushings being trashed enough to let the axle and the springs move around, but that's a remote possibility. Good luck.
 
andyblack said:
I would suspect that the zero rates weren't installed correctly. Another possiblity is a broken center pin letting the axle move around. Time to take the u-bolts loose and investigate. It could be any number of things. I don't think it's unusual for the frames on these trucks to be slightly out of square enough to cause one wheel to be farther ahead than the other, but 1.5" seems to be way too much. I also think it's ironic that the zero rates are made to move the axle up to 1.5" forward or backward. What about the rear wheels? Are they the same way? One other thing I can think of is the spring eye bushings being trashed enough to let the axle and the springs move around, but that's a remote possibility. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I'm with ya on this one.
 
if the spring sags out some on that side, it would push the tire further back in the wheel well. This may account or some of the alignment issue.

have the fenders been trimmed already? Evenly?
 
Thank's for the ideas, but the problem is still unsolved.

Sorry no pictures yet, he dropped the axle already so there isn't much to take a picture of right now.

Measured the springs, the measurement from the center pin hole to the front spring eye is within 1/4".

The Zero-Rates appeared to be installed correctly, although I was not around when installed or to see the axle dropped after we noticed the problem.
I was told that the measurement from the front spring eye to the front of the Zero-Rate was the same on both sides. Also now that the axle is dropped and the center pin removed, it appears, from the scratches and marks, that the pins were in the center holes.
He used the original spring plates, which wouldn't work if the 1" or 1 1/2" offset holes were used. Wouldn't an offset hole need to be drilled in the spring plates, to accommodate offset Zero-Rates? I do have a set of DIY4X D60 Spring Plates, that have a slotted center pin hole.

The fenders are not trimmed yet, but the cab body lift has been installed. Could he have had all the cab mounts loose, when installing the 1" body lift and poly bushings, and shifted the cab around some? Originally, before the body lift install started, the cab and box body lines matched up. Its hard to tell now, as he has the box completely loose to install the body lift on it.

Why he removed the Zero-Rates/center pins from the springs, when they appeared to be properly installed, is another question. I'm beginning to suspect that he found something installed wrong, and took them apart to cover his butt. Now he wants to move the axle forward 1" to gain more clearance, which was my original plan. I had decided against that due to drag link and bump steer issues.

I think we are going to just go ahead and redo things as they were the first time and see what happens. I wish he hadn't started on the body lift until we had the axle issue squared away, to many things have changed at once to be able to get any good baseline measurements off the body and fenders.
 
Man, that is a great reply.
You are on it!! It sounds like maybe something just happened by accident. Or there is something out of your control; like something bent etc. Everything you said is right on and you're covering some good ideas. I think this may end up you finding what it was and schooling us. :doah: :D :waytogo:
 
Late this afternoon I went into my shop to look things over. My full time farm hand was working on a piece of equipment, so he helped me look things over and measure. We came to the conclusion the the everything is good with the frame, suspension, axles, and etc..

What I did find out is that my mechanic started the 1" lift on the cab before the axles were bolted up. We were waiting for a replacement U-Bolt, as the D60 U-Bolt set that I had ordered, contained one U-Bolt of the wrong size.

While measuring this afternoon, we discovered that the cab and core support mount bolts are all loose, and the box is completely unbolted.
The lower grille panel is against the bumper on the passenger side and 1/2" away on the drivers side.
It looks like one of my original suspicions may be true. I think he shifted the position of the cab on the frame while doing the body lift. Does this sound reasonable?
When installing a body lift shouldn't you loosen only one side at a time to prevent possibly shifting the body?
Wouldn't you want to complete the cab or box first, then procede to the other?

If we decide that the cab is misaligned, how do we position it correctly? By eye, in relationship to the tire fit in the wheel well? Is there any way to measure from certain points on the frame? This should be a pretty simple body work procedure that experienced body men do all the time.

I am getting a little disgruntled with my mechanic!
We are going to have a long talk tomorrow about what he actually did and in what sequence, and come up with a written plan on how we are going to move forward on this project. These modifications should not be that difficult.

Anymore ideas or words of advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
The cab can't shift around all that much if all the bolts are a least in the holes. Just snug the bolts down and check it again. Old truck body's don't always line up very well, but if it was ok before the work started, it's probably something that was done wrong.
 
You should drive it after you get it all back together and see if acts funny going down the road. It could be that it drives just fine and just looks off. I've always heard that it's a bad idea to entirely loosen all the body mounts at once when installing a body lift. One corner at the time seems to be the way to go. Also, it's the general concensus on this forum that moving the axle 1" or even 1.5" forward won't generate much more bumpsteer with the stock steering setup than it has already. The stock draglink is only 16" long to start with and it's pependicular to the tie rod. Not exactly an ideal situation for good handling.
 
Did you measure center line to center line of the front and rear axles on both sides?

Martin
 
Progress Made!!!!!!!!!!!

The cab had shifted, so my farm hand and the mechanic lined it up to set square with the bumper.
The axles were put back up, but moving them 1" forward this time, and everything lined up just right.
My mechanic still won't admit to any mistakes. But the body had obviously shifted during the body lift install and his original install of the Zero-Rates was messed up in some way.
The front of the fenders were trimmed, and the drag link adjusted as much as possible without shortening.
I put about 30 miles on it this evening on gravel roads, and it seems to drive pretty close to as it did before we started.
Need to check out the transfer case linkage adjustment, cut and adjust the drag link, and trim the rear of the fenders.
It looks just right to me for 35" tires, and I certainly wouldn't want to go with a 4" lift unless I wanted to run 37's.
I'll take and post pictures this weekend.
 
K85 Octane said:
awesome to hear
so this has a body lift and zero rate? Total lift?
Click to expand...

To recap, here's what has been done so far:
1" ORD Zero-Rates, front axle moved forward 1", drag link adjusted
DIY4X Spring Plates
1" ORD Body Lift with Poly Body Mounts, fan shroud trimmed
ORD Bolt In Steering Box Brace,
Front Fender Trimming
315/70R17 (35") Treadwright Guard Dog MT's (retreads)
17x9 Pro-Comp Black Steel wheels (4.5"? backspacing)
Sylvania SilverStar headlights and reverse lights

Previously, I had a Power Lock limited slip installed in the front Dana 60.
The rear 14 bolt axle comes standard with a Detroit locker.

So 2" inches of lift, but probably slightly more, as the the old rubber body mounts were pretty smashed out.

Before and after pictures will be posted sometime this weekend.
 
After Lift Pictures

See previous posts for spec's on the lift.
The front of the front fenders just got a quick cut, we'll go back and cut more and give it a nicer looking curved cut.
Need to trim the rear of the front fenders also.
She drives just as she did before. Just have a couple of little clearance issues with the bump stops and spring plates to address.

IMG_0001.jpg

IMG_0002.jpg

IMG_0007.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom