Hydro Assist Steering Problem

[cybrfire]

This is an honest question since my state doesn't do inspections.

Some cars are made with factory full hydraulic and even drive by wire steering systems. Orbital valves will still push fluid even if your pump stops turning. Tractors use hydraulic steering, most construction equipment has hydraulic steering. It's not unsafe when properly installed so why can't it pass an inspection. I would think it would be safer and more likely to pass inspection than "hydraulic assist" which sounds more dangerous because of the drag mentioned in previous posts due to an overtaxed pump trying to run 2 systems that don't always get along. Personally I would think using the right control valve to push a double ended ram with two short drag links connected firmly to the axle and the knuckles would be more of an upgrade than a safety issue when compared to the modified gear box method. But thats just me.

Just curious what vehicles you are refering to that are full hydraulic from the factory or drive by wire? Never seen a factory setup that way and would like to.

 

[ktmoutfront]

Me too. And when a brake line fails, the other side of the master cylinder still works.

Every car I have built has been converted to dual master cylinder. Not easy on a 64 Corvair. But that's another story.

 

[colbystephens]

I would think it would be safer and more likely to pass inspection than "hydraulic assist" which sounds more dangerous because of the drag mentioned in previous posts due to an overtaxed pump trying to run 2 systems that don't always get along.

I know we're starting to get sidetracked here, but I think it's worth responding to this. A properly designed system is going to have little to no drag. The drag someone might experience with a properly designed system is not something that would be present in daily driving situations, but rather in low/no-traction lock-to-lock steering that you might engage in during various kinds of wheeling.

I also contend that a properly set up system is not overloading the pump. My stock pump with over 200,000 miles does an excellent job powering my hydro assist system. My systems get along perfectly. Always. You wouldn't even know the hydro system is there, except that you can wheel the Rubicon trail with 1 finger on the steering wheel.

Use reliable parts and proper installation and you won't have anything to worry about.

Hydro and hydro assist can both be right, or they can both be cobbled together. The great thing about hydro assist is that it essentially gives you the function of full hydro with the ability to drive it in any state, and it's super cheap and easy to assemble.

 

[AR_K5]

Just curious what vehicles you are refering to that are full hydraulic from the factory or drive by wire? Never seen a factory setup that way and would like to.

The Infinity Q50 is the first fully drive by wire production car, but as I said if it was unreliable and unsafe it wouldn't be the desired choice for heavy equipment manufactures and equipment with hydraulic steering wouldn't be allowed on the road.

With something like this mounted to the firewall and connected to the steering column you can eliminate the intermediate shaft entirely.

Here is an example of how I would set up my ram.

 

[DirtRidinz71]

If you end up having to bleed it again, next time do it this way with a helper. :

1. Turn the wheels all the way one direction with the front end on jack stands.
2. Put a funnel in the end of the line that goes into the currently-closed side of the ram.
3. Fill the funnel with PS fluid.
4. Have a friend SLOWLY push the wheels the other direction to suck the fluid down while continuing the pour PS fluid into it.
5. When you reach the locked position in the other direction, attach the hose to the box and repeat going the other direction.

This will get almost all of the system primed before you even turn the truck on. You should be fully topped off within a few minutes afterwards.

You can also "prime" your PS cooler if you think it'll help.

Thanks for the tips but it is very rare that I get a helper around when working on the truck. I read your write-up on your hydro assist last night, nicely done!

Are you basing all of this on only sitting in the driveway and turning the wheels a couple of times? Have you actually driven the truck or tried putting some load on the tires before trying to turn them, like maybe pull up against a curb and turn them? This comes from your comment that you could easily turn the tires lock to lock sitting still prior to the hydro-assist. If that is the case I wouldn't expect it to be any easier, and might actually feel a little stiffer based on the ram being a little on the slow side. On mine if you try to turn the wheel too fast you feel resistance because the ram can't react fast enough.

I have hooked everything up and tried driving it around a little. Tried burying the front tires in the snow and try to turn that is how I am telling if it is working or not



I'll update this once I get the box off again and pull it apart, it must be where the problem is.

I'll probably have to get bigger 3/8 hydraulic lines too, brain fart on my part there.
I would think that the 1/4" lines would just make the ram move slower since not the amount of fluid going to it, am I on track with that thinking?

 

[DirtRidinz71]

Just curious what vehicles you are refering to that are full hydraulic from the factory or drive by wire? Never seen a factory setup that way and would like to.

Does DIY4x offer a tapped end cap for the 88-98 Saginaw steering boxes? I ordered some zero rates from you guys this winter and everything went smoothly and decent shipping time to Canada!

 

[cybrfire]

The Infinity Q50 is the first fully drive by wire production car, but as I said if it was unreliable and unsafe it wouldn't be the desired choice for heavy equipment manufactures and equipment with hydraulic steering wouldn't be allowed on the road.

With something like this mounted to the firewall and connected to the steering column you can eliminate the intermediate shaft entirely.

Here is an example of how I would set up my ram.

I've built two rigs now that have full hydraulic steering and i'm a fan of it. That being said, these days I look at things a little differently when speaking of systems that I like to refer to as "Mission Critical. The heavy equipment that has full hydraulic steering isn't something that's gona see highway speeds of 65-75 MPH. There is alot of equipment around here like that. None of it is tagged for Highway usage. You do see it on the roads from time to time for moving from one place to another but technically I don't think it is tagged for highway usage. It most certainly can be done right, no doubt about it.

Not to many infinity's around here to look at. It would be cool to see how they've done it and what kinda parts they are using.

Does DIY4x offer a tapped end cap for the 88-98 Saginaw steering boxes? I ordered some zero rates from you guys this winter and everything went smoothly and decent shipping time to Canada!

At this point, no, we don't. Not far off from production though. Happy to hear the feedback though.

 

[6.2Blazer]

I'll probably have to get bigger 3/8 hydraulic lines too, brain fart on my part there.
I would think that the 1/4" lines would just make the ram move slower since not the amount of fluid going to it, am I on track with that thinking?

I run 1/4" lines along with most people I know and the system works fine. About 99.9% sure that has nothing to do with your issue.