i8yrsuv
1/2 ton status
Hannibal said:
CK5
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Is schedule 40 pipe strong enough?
- Thread starter TruckNutzDude
- Start date
TruckNutzDude
1/2 ton status
fulltopblazer said:
Well, I've decided to go with pipe afterall (took me long enough!). It's 2.7 pounds per foot which IMHO is not that heavy when you're talking about 1.5" ID 1.9" OD material (.200 wall). It weighs less than a piece of 1/8" 2"x2" square tubing at 2.9 pounds per foot IIRC. For a 20' lenght at the local steel yard I'll pay $50 for pipe, it's much more for HREW or DOM at the nearest speed shop (next state over). I'm planning on using about 150' for my exocage and the small "bed" behind my cab. The, roughly, 400 pounds of weight isn't that much of a concern to me since I've removed so much more material from my rig I actually lost traction in the rear. I would estimate that my rig weighs under 5,000 pounds as is (no bed, no doors, skinned fenders, no bumpers and no interior) so a little extra weight shouldn't hurt too much.
Wadya think?wayne
3/4 ton status
TruckNutzDude said:Well, I've decided to go with pipe afterall (took me long enough!). It's 2.7 pounds per foot which IMHO is not that heavy when you're talking about 1.5" ID 1.9" OD material (.200 wall). It weighs less than a piece of 1/8" 2"x2" square tubing at 2.9 pounds per foot IIRC. For a 20' lenght at the local steel yard I'll pay $50 for pipe, it's much more for HREW or DOM at the nearest speed shop (next state over). I'm planning on using about 150' for my exocage and the small "bed" behind my cab. The, roughly, 400 pounds of weight isn't that much of a concern to me since I've removed so much more material from my rig I actually lost traction in the rear. I would estimate that my rig weighs under 5,000 pounds as is (no bed, no doors, skinned fenders, no bumpers and no interior) so a little extra weight shouldn't hurt too much.
I say DO IT!!! It's so funny to read all the BS of pipe vs. DOM vs. this and that. Half of the so claimed experts don't even have a cage and believe everything that is on the net. Guys have been building cages out of pipe for years running roundy round cars. Hell we run pipe in ours and it took a pretty severe roll last year with no issues. Hell you can find plenty of pics on the net of DOM cage failures. What it comes down to is design more then anything. We run full size rigs so I really don't think an extra 25 or so pounds is going to matter much. Hell once you have it built and painted 99.9% of the people will not have any clue if it is pipe or tube. Now having said that, my cage is DOM but the only reason it is not pipe is because I got my DOM for $2.27 per foot because I put a deal together with 2 other people and we got over 800 feet.
RGV72BLAZER
1/2 ton status
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hmmm...
CDA 455
3/4 ton status
My two cents:
What is a roll cage for? It's to keep you safe in case of a roll-over/side. It's to also stiffen up the chassis to prevent flex. As far as safety goes, my brown a$$ is worth using material that is properly designed to deal with the stresses put on the rig. Granted, I've rolled in a road racer at over 120 MPH which convinced me of this.
Just remember, besides the stiffening of the chassis, the roll cage is a waste of money and unnecessary weight UNTIL you roll (on your side, on your roof, down a cliff, etc) then as you're tumbling your praying it holds together! And in my case you soil yourself after it's over
!!
What is a roll cage for? It's to keep you safe in case of a roll-over/side. It's to also stiffen up the chassis to prevent flex. As far as safety goes, my brown a$$ is worth using material that is properly designed to deal with the stresses put on the rig. Granted, I've rolled in a road racer at over 120 MPH which convinced me of this.
Just remember, besides the stiffening of the chassis, the roll cage is a waste of money and unnecessary weight UNTIL you roll (on your side, on your roof, down a cliff, etc) then as you're tumbling your praying it holds together! And in my case you soil yourself after it's over
!!CDA 455
3/4 ton status
My two cents:
What is a roll cage for? It's to keep you safe in case of a roll-over/side. It's to also stiffen up the chassis to prevent flex. As far as safety goes, my brown a$$ is worth using material that is properly designed to deal with the stresses put on the rig. Granted, I've rolled in a road racer at over 120 MPH which convinced me of this.
Just remember, besides the stiffening of the chassis, the roll cage is a waste of money and unnecessary weight UNTIL you roll (on your side, on your roof, down a cliff, etc) then as you're tumbling your praying it holds together! And in my case you soil yourself after it's over !!
What is a roll cage for? It's to keep you safe in case of a roll-over/side. It's to also stiffen up the chassis to prevent flex. As far as safety goes, my brown a$$ is worth using material that is properly designed to deal with the stresses put on the rig. Granted, I've rolled in a road racer at over 120 MPH which convinced me of this.
Just remember, besides the stiffening of the chassis, the roll cage is a waste of money and unnecessary weight UNTIL you roll (on your side, on your roof, down a cliff, etc) then as you're tumbling your praying it holds together! And in my case you soil yourself after it's over
!!CDA 455
3/4 ton status
My two cents:
What is a roll cage for? It's to keep you safe in case of a roll-over/side. It's to also stiffen up the chassis to prevent flex. As far as safety goes, my brown a$$ is worth using material that is properly designed to deal with the stresses put on the rig. Granted, I've rolled in a road racer at over 120 MPH which convinced me of this.
Just remember, besides the stiffening of the chassis, the roll cage is a waste of money and unnecessary weight UNTIL you roll (on your side, on your roof, down a cliff, etc) then as you're tumbling your praying it holds together! And in my case you soil yourself after it's over !!
What is a roll cage for? It's to keep you safe in case of a roll-over/side. It's to also stiffen up the chassis to prevent flex. As far as safety goes, my brown a$$ is worth using material that is properly designed to deal with the stresses put on the rig. Granted, I've rolled in a road racer at over 120 MPH which convinced me of this.
Just remember, besides the stiffening of the chassis, the roll cage is a waste of money and unnecessary weight UNTIL you roll (on your side, on your roof, down a cliff, etc) then as you're tumbling your praying it holds together! And in my case you soil yourself after it's over
!!The problem with pipe is that there is a huge range of what is called pipe. Some of it has NO business being anything but plumbing. Other of it is probably suitable.
On the other hand all Tube is sold as structural, unlike pipe. With tube you know what you're getting. With "pipe"?
On the other hand all Tube is sold as structural, unlike pipe. With tube you know what you're getting. With "pipe"?
TruckNutzDude
1/2 ton status
ntsqd said:
The pipe I'm purchasing is "structural grade schedule 40" according to the listing I read from the supplier. They sell building material so I'm assuming that the pipe they use is higher quality than what you would get at home depot... With that in mind, I'm putting a cage on my rig for added rigidity in the frame (body has been solidly connected to the frame at 6 points to the rectangular steel rockers). I'm also building my bumper and a bed from it which will be connected directly to the frame. The bumper is going to support the radiator and will be welded to the winch mount that is bolted to the front of the frame. The bed will be solidly welded to the frame at 8 different points. All together I will have 18 points of cage connected to the frame plus the original 6 body mounts that the pickup cab had originally. I think that should be plenty stiff.
TruckNutzDude
1/2 ton status
A rough rendering of what I had in mind...
TruckNutzDude
1/2 ton status
And the front...
Gaffed
1/2 ton status
not to steal the thread but I've got access to 1.5" and 2" Sch 40 304 Stainless Steel. Any opinions on making a single roll bar with it?
TruckNutzDude
1/2 ton status
I finally got around to the bed portion of this cage idea. Here's a link.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207180
And a few pictures. Linked to my webshots.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207180
And a few pictures. Linked to my webshots.
SCORE rules are 2" .120 wall 4130 seamless or 1018 DOM for anything 4000lbs. and up just so you know. 1.75" .120 wall for 3000-3999lbs.
BadDog said:
I know this is really old but, the above statement is not true. HREW is HOT rolled electric welded tibing. DOM is drawn over mandrel. it is essentially COLD rolled. DOM is also more consistent in wall thickness then HREW.
From the link construction article on pirate:
Material ------------------------------------------------------Yield Strength (psi)
ASTM Grade 53 Pipe ----------------------------------------------- 30,000
1020 ERW tube (more commonly known as HREW) --------------------40,000
1020 DOM ----------------------------------------------------------70,000
4130 Cr-Mo ---------------------------------------------------------90,000
4340 Cr-Mo ---------------------------------------------------------120,000
The site that this info came from, and lots of good reading on why DOM is the right choice:
http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Links/
DOM isn't that expensive, there really should be no lesser alternative
Seriously, the pipe's yield strength is a lot closer to most aluminums than it is to DOM 1020 cold rolled steel. Would you build a cage out of aluminum?
Don't forget that chromoly steel is more complicated to weld than other steel.
Material ------------------------------------------------------Yield Strength (psi)
ASTM Grade 53 Pipe ----------------------------------------------- 30,000
1020 ERW tube (more commonly known as HREW) --------------------40,000
1020 DOM ----------------------------------------------------------70,000
4130 Cr-Mo ---------------------------------------------------------90,000
4340 Cr-Mo ---------------------------------------------------------120,000
The site that this info came from, and lots of good reading on why DOM is the right choice:
http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Links/
DOM isn't that expensive, there really should be no lesser alternative
Seriously, the pipe's yield strength is a lot closer to most aluminums than it is to DOM 1020 cold rolled steel. Would you build a cage out of aluminum?
Don't forget that chromoly steel is more complicated to weld than other steel.
Last edited by a moderator:
Chas: Good point on the difference in HREW. Should have been more specific, but my main point was that DOM is (C)REW.
383: I'm no engineer, but from what I understand, that has little bearing on safety. It just means that DOM will withstand more without permanent deformation. So yes, a DOM cage will hold up better to beating, and that makes it better for a buggy and links(!!! re: the article). But yield has MUCH less impact on safety (pun intended) for a "I don't plan to roll it, but just in case." cage. In a properly designed cage, other properties, properties that are not much different between HREW, CREW and DOM are more important. So, they provide very similar safety. The difference in yield just means that HREW will be more likely to need repair after a less violent impact. Bottom line, you can't look at a single property like "yield" and declare a clear winner. Yes, DOM is "better", but for the average cage, HREW/CREW/DOM is fine and more a matter of choice and availability (IMO). Pipe is a different matter all together, as already covered.
That is my understanding from listening to engineers, Dan and others could put numbers to it and make a more compelling (and I think the same?) point...
383: I'm no engineer, but from what I understand, that has little bearing on safety. It just means that DOM will withstand more without permanent deformation. So yes, a DOM cage will hold up better to beating, and that makes it better for a buggy and links(!!! re: the article). But yield has MUCH less impact on safety (pun intended) for a "I don't plan to roll it, but just in case." cage. In a properly designed cage, other properties, properties that are not much different between HREW, CREW and DOM are more important. So, they provide very similar safety. The difference in yield just means that HREW will be more likely to need repair after a less violent impact. Bottom line, you can't look at a single property like "yield" and declare a clear winner. Yes, DOM is "better", but for the average cage, HREW/CREW/DOM is fine and more a matter of choice and availability (IMO). Pipe is a different matter all together, as already covered.
That is my understanding from listening to engineers, Dan and others could put numbers to it and make a more compelling (and I think the same?) point...
BadDog said:
so if I PLAN to roll it then I should definitley have DOM right? I'm asking seriously. I have only been pricing DOM since no one seems to carry the HREW.
some of the guys in my area are running DOM and some are running pipe. seems like the guys running DOM all have nice trucks that they built with a nice budget. they enjoy wheeling but don't do anything that would come close to causing a violent roll. the guys running pipe have beaters that they wheel the piss out of.
I know that doesn't mean anything but if guys are getting away with pipe should I be able to get away with HREW. I'm the guy on the trail that will try any line. FOR MUD flipped his truck last time out and I swore I could make it. everyone else thought it was a bad idea.
TruckNutzDude
1/2 ton status
Out of curiosity, what are the prices you're being quoted for DOM? The 1-1/2" I.D. ASTM 53 pipe I use is under $50 for 22'. I hear tube is close to $3-$4 per foot.
TruckNutzDude said:
thats what I have been getting for 1.75 x .120 wall. for the dollar foot more its not worth going with pipe.
