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Is schedule 40 pipe strong enough?

I think it cost me $2.18 per foot. The pipe is about 1.8" O.D. which means its got a .150 wall thickness.

I've also noticed that a lot of "beaters" use pipe, I think the reasoning behind that is because $1-$2 per foot is a lot when you figure it adds up to about $200-$300 by the time the rig is complete. I know $200-$300 for me is a lot of money, actually it's enough for me to finish my cage work, then get a couple spare driveshafts and an electric fan setup from a junk yard. :D
 
Chas: That's not a bad way to look at it I suppose. My truggy has never been in a really hard roll, but I've had to section it twice to remove bent tubes and it has one on it now that's been there for a while (over the front right tire) and I just haven't done anything about it. In a hard roll, anything is going to get beat and likely need fixing, but DOM would likely have held up better than my HREW cage.

Pipe is another matter, lots of different grades. But the more common pipe we see used out here is both heavier than 0.120 wall (typical HREW/DOM is 1.75x0.120) AND a seems to be a "stiffer" (technical term) alloy. So where mine dents/bends, the pipe just slides. HOWEVER, that pipe is more brittle. You don't ever seen HREW/DOM fracture. It's bend till no tomorrow, but not fracture. I've seen it happen to pipe, though never catestrophically (i.e. it split, not broke). It would really suck if a hard roll fractured that b-pillar and sent the sharp end through your side...

In the end, we each have to decide for ourselves based on our use, comfort, and budget. HREW works for me, and I've never had really had any second thoughts about whether it was the right choice. If I was more "hard core", my HREW cage would probably be trashed and I would be running a DOM by now. At the same time, Brook and others that are certainly among the "hard core" crowd successfully run pipe (of known grade, NOT HOME IMPROVEMENT big box grade!!!!).

Yer' makes yer' choice, and yer' take yer' chances... ARghhh!
 
good points Baddog. :waytogo: I completely forgot that pipe fractures. I should know that, I used to work construction. whenever we were taking out pipe we would just smash the fittings. it was quicker then cutting it out.

I'm not worried about sliding along things or even flopping it. the cage will only be there to protect me in a roll that would be life threatening if the cage wasn't there. :crazy: Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
 
BadDog said:
383: I'm no engineer, but from what I understand, that has little bearing on safety. It just means that DOM will withstand more without permanent deformation. So yes, a DOM cage will hold up better to beating, and that makes it better for a buggy and links(!!! re: the article). But yield has MUCH less impact on safety (pun intended) for a "I don't plan to roll it, but just in case." cage. In a properly designed cage, other properties, properties that are not much different between HREW, CREW and DOM are more important. So, they provide very similar safety. The difference in yield just means that HREW will be more likely to need repair after a less violent impact. Bottom line, you can't look at a single property like "yield" and declare a clear winner. Yes, DOM is "better", but for the average cage, HREW/CREW/DOM is fine and more a matter of choice and availability (IMO). Pipe is a different matter all together, as already covered.
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I mostly agree with you, but just imagine a really hard roll. The DOM cage might be badly smashed (and in need of major repair/replacement) but did its job. As for the pipe cage, well, you see where I'm going.

This, as with any info you get on the net, should be taken with a grain of salt. This site (and this forum specifically) isn't here to tell you how to build your truck, its here to show you things/info you may not have seen elsewhere and allow you to make a decision based on it. My .02
 
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"Mostly true"? What's not true? Or did you mean "I mostly agree." Two very different things...

Yep, that's why I added my last line about pipe.

Think of it this way. A cage to make a crash "survivable" is one goal with a given set of reasonable solutions. Having a cage to bash repeatedly with minimal maintenance is quite another with a smaller subset of viable solutions.

Also agree on your second paragraph, something I've said myself many times. What's right for me, is not for someone else. It's been said that Brook (haven't heard from him in ages, wonder if he still comes around?) is something of a "poster child" for pipe cages. He's much harder on his that I am on mine and it seems to have held up fine. There was a guy on PBB that also strongly supported pipe cages, and built a nice rig from pipe. At the same time, even with that testimony from someone I respect, I wouldn't consider building a "pipe cage" (certs or not), nor would I be comfortable recommending one. In a similar vein, other folks I respect (Robert for one) have held lively debates with me over the merits of DOM vs H/CREW. Lots of good arguements and supporting evidence on all sides.

The main point is to educate yourself as well as you can and make an informed decision based on YOUR understanding and needs. With the web in general, or a site this big, you can pretty much find someone supporting just about any possible alternative. Doesn't mean it's right for you just because it worked for them, but that also does not invalidate their choice...
 
BadDog said:
With the web in general, or a site this big, you can pretty much find someone supporting just about any possible alternative. Doesn't mean it's right for you just because it worked for them, but that also does not invalidate their choice...
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Excellent statement there.

I also agree that cages are meant to help you survive a roll. I didn't build mine to survive a roll then do it all over again the next weekend in the same rig with no damage. If mine rolls I just want to be safe that one time, I figure the body will be pretty trashed by then and I'll be building a buggy at that point anyways. :D
 
If I were to use pipe I would have the main hope of of DOM still.
 
howdiy said:
If I were to use pipe I would have the main hope of of DOM still.
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that might create more problems. There is no way to predict how the welds between the pipe and DOM would hold up in a roll. I would think that if you are going to use pipe then you should do it all in pipe.
 
ok I will chim in as I have started threads about this subject and posted in many too. I use these few rules in order to build what I think is a very quailty cage.

1= safety for my family
2= purpose of the rig
3= weight of the rig, IE: fully loaded with people, fuel, gear, etc
4= survivability of a BAD roll, cage design is CRITICAL HERE
5= low maintenence

1 safety= nothing is more important then my family. so keeping them safe is paramount and superceeds all. yes on hard core runs my family might not even go, probably just a guy trip but if they do I want my rig as safe as possible.

2 purpose of rig= I am building a hard core capable trail rig that still will be street legal (realitivly legal :D ) if I never use it to its capibility so what, but I plan on it, so a bad roll will be inevatable at some point.

3 weight= probably in the 6000+ lb range.

4 survivabilty AND design= I will build it to handle a BAD roll over, wheather it be a hard flop to a multiple roll. most tires up are just soft flops on the side but multi rolls happen when you dont expect it....then its too late to go back and build a better cage.

5 low maintence= I dont want to have to section tubes out or atleast not as often as I would using lesser quality tube/pipe.


My personal choice is nothing less then DOM period. I dont care about cost. yes it IS very expensive but it is what it is. I would take a pipe cage ANY DAY OF THE WEEK over nothing at all if I was going to go wheelin, especially on a tough trail.

on a budget the minimum should be HREW. if you cant get it at the local steel place, save some more money to pay for shipping, order it and have it delivered.

CROMOLY cages are for the high end racing rock rigs or baja type trucks. if you can afford it and can weld it properly, have at it but I cant.


I prefer to build overkill, I dont like to build what is probably suficient, I want to KNOW its going to hold up to those "not intended for incidents" so for me its 1026 DOM. for my trail rig.

for my daily driver and some times off roaded suburban it will be HREW since it wont see the kinda of trails my blazer will see.
 
gmc4cw said:
that might create more problems. There is no way to predict how the welds between the pipe and DOM would hold up in a roll. I would think that if you are going to use pipe then you should do it all in pipe.
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along these lines, would it be ok to mix and match DOM and HREW tubing?

I currently have the S&W 6-point DOM cage in my truck, I plan on adding some gussets, but nothing elaborate. Where I wheel, there are lots of trees and the trails are tight. I dont want my rig to look like a raisen after a couple runs so I am planning on adding an exocage

I was thinking of using DOM for the A-pillar and B-pillar halos and the rest of the cage/front bumper/tubular back-half would be HREW. Any thoughts on this?
 
muddermilitia said:
along these lines, would it be ok to mix and match DOM and HREW tubing?

I currently have the S&W 6-point DOM cage in my truck, I plan on adding some gussets, but nothing elaborate. Where I wheel, there are lots of trees and the trails are tight. I dont want my rig to look like a raisen after a couple runs so I am planning on adding an exocage

I was thinking of using DOM for the A-pillar and B-pillar halos and the rest of the cage/front bumper/tubular back-half would be HREW. Any thoughts on this?
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Do it :thumb:
 
I would do it also. DOM and HREW are very close in dimensions. that would save you a lot of money. PIPE is just to inconsistent. if you smack a pipe with a hammer hard enough it will crack. DOM and HREW will both bend.
 
cool beans! my brother and I are going to buy a tubing bender probably this winter or next spring. He's also planning an exocage for his crewcab trail rig
 
Exo is a whole different (off) topic, but I won't go down that road except to say I have no use for them.

On combining DOM and HREW, I see no reason not to do so.
 
38377k5 said:
From the link construction article on pirate:

Material ------------------------------------------------------Yield Strength (psi)

ASTM Grade 53 Pipe ----------------------------------------------- 30,000

1020 ERW tube (more commonly known as HREW) --------------------40,000

1020 DOM ----------------------------------------------------------70,000

4130 Cr-Mo ---------------------------------------------------------90,000

4340 Cr-Mo ---------------------------------------------------------120,000


The site that this info came from, and lots of good reading on why DOM is the right choice:

http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Links/


DOM isn't that expensive, there really should be no lesser alternative :dunno:

Seriously, the pipe's yield strength is a lot closer to most aluminums than it is to DOM 1020 cold rolled steel. Would you build a cage out of aluminum?

Don't forget that chromoly steel is more complicated to weld than other steel.
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anyone know what type of loading these yield numbers are for? tension, compression, lateral... etc???
 
Is schedule 40 pipe strong enough

It means that it either will make it or it wont. But the fact is that it still stands probably a 50/50 chance. Its all about the crocea. I have seen some that 1000 watts wasnt intense enough for while I have seen others where 150 watts was fine for them.
 
bgreen said:
I have used, and will continue to use 1.5" (thats 1.9" OD)sch 40, A53E pipe for roll cages on my own personal rigs, and rigs for anyone who requests it.

I have had good luck with this schedule and grade of pipe for offroad use.

One note that anyone bending seemed tubing should pay attention to... When possible, put the seem to the inside of the bend.
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I worked for hd supply and we carried A53 plain end and t&c (threaded and coupled) black iron pipe. Is this what you are using to do cages? I have thought about using it. I know tat there is better tubing out there but dont have the money for the good stuff.
 
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