unclematty
1/2 ton status
enough of the crying and whining!!! install spools and enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/hack.gif /forums/images/graemlins/weld.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grind.gif
CK5
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Limited slip wheels both spin???
- Thread starter stallion85
- Start date
84_Chevy_K10
Banned
[ QUOTE ]
enough of the crying and whining!!! install spools and enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/hack.gif /forums/images/graemlins/weld.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grind.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I like to steer, thank you. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
enough of the crying and whining!!! install spools and enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/hack.gif /forums/images/graemlins/weld.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grind.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I like to steer, thank you. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
BlueBlazer
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2001
- Posts
- 1,940
- Reaction score
- 1
Explain to us, oh Master, how a spool is any different than a locker that is engaged under power? I do agree I would rather weld than pay for a spool.
stallion85
1/2 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
enough of the crying and whining!!! install spools and enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/hack.gif /forums/images/graemlins/weld.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grind.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
What are spools??
enough of the crying and whining!!! install spools and enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/hack.gif /forums/images/graemlins/weld.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grind.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
What are spools??
[ QUOTE ]
Explain to us, oh Master, how a spool is any different than a locker that is engaged under power? I do agree I would rather weld than pay for a spool.
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There is no difference when the locker is engaged under power, but that also explains the difference......a locker can DISengage. I like a spool/welded diff in the back but not in the front.
With a Lock-right in the front diff I really don't notice much of a problem doing sharp turns on the trail if I'm under idle to light throttle in which the locker will disengage. I also have the option of reaching down and slapping the t-case into 2wd for 3-point turns, because with no power going to front end it will be unlocked even with the hubs still locked. This is also nice for short stretches of gravel or paved roads between trails. With a spooled front you would have to get out of the truck and unlock at least one hub to do this.
Anyway, back to the original question regarding limited slips. The answer is "it just depends" on exactly what type of LS diff it is.
With both tires off the ground and spinning one tire by hand, the other tire will spin the opposite direction (assuming the driveshaft is stationary).
A clutch type limited slip that is working properly will spin both tires in the same direction. The clutches would have to be severely worn out or broken to not spin both tires in this situation because of the small amount of bias between the tires when they are both off the ground.
Gear-driven or torque-biasing diffs when typically spin the tires in opposite direction when spun slow. If you can spin them fast enough then they will usually start spinning the same way. The Gov-lock is like this also.
Explain to us, oh Master, how a spool is any different than a locker that is engaged under power? I do agree I would rather weld than pay for a spool.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no difference when the locker is engaged under power, but that also explains the difference......a locker can DISengage. I like a spool/welded diff in the back but not in the front.
With a Lock-right in the front diff I really don't notice much of a problem doing sharp turns on the trail if I'm under idle to light throttle in which the locker will disengage. I also have the option of reaching down and slapping the t-case into 2wd for 3-point turns, because with no power going to front end it will be unlocked even with the hubs still locked. This is also nice for short stretches of gravel or paved roads between trails. With a spooled front you would have to get out of the truck and unlock at least one hub to do this.
Anyway, back to the original question regarding limited slips. The answer is "it just depends" on exactly what type of LS diff it is.
With both tires off the ground and spinning one tire by hand, the other tire will spin the opposite direction (assuming the driveshaft is stationary).
A clutch type limited slip that is working properly will spin both tires in the same direction. The clutches would have to be severely worn out or broken to not spin both tires in this situation because of the small amount of bias between the tires when they are both off the ground.
Gear-driven or torque-biasing diffs when typically spin the tires in opposite direction when spun slow. If you can spin them fast enough then they will usually start spinning the same way. The Gov-lock is like this also.
BlueBlazer
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2001
- Posts
- 1,940
- Reaction score
- 1
My old lockright in my K5 would lock up with any input of the throttle. I dont think having a spool or being welded up front with the tcase in 2wd will cause much more difficulty in turning since the front axle won't be in a bind since it's not connected to the rest of the driveline in any way, so it should slip enough to make turning little if any more difficult. Of course, on pavement you would notice, but most trails have enough of a slip to the surface that you shouldn't notice a permanently locked diff if the tcase is in 2wd. Lots of guys on pirate4x4 run front spools and welded diffs and I haven't heard any steering effort complaints there.
Ganked from Randy's
"Spools & Mini Spools:
For racing, serious off-road, or crazy hot-rodders, a spool is the ultimate traction differential. Actually, it can hardly be called a differential because it does not differentiate. Spools have several purposes in a differential. First, they lock both left and right axles solid together so that there can be no loss of power due to the unit allowing one wheel to spin faster than the other. Second, they usually support the ring gear much better than most other differentials. Last, they can be lighter than a differential, which saves rotating mass as well as un-sprung weight that the suspension has to contain. The main shortcoming of spools is the fact that the outside wheel has to turn faster when negotiating a turn if both wheels are to maintain traction. If the axles are locked together, one or both wheels have to slip in order for the outside wheel to travel farther than the inside wheel. This can cause the rear of the vehicle to spin out, fish-tale, or can cause a lot of noise that sounds like positraction clutch chatter as the axles twist and release. Sometimes these effects are not all that bad, and they are less severe when 35-spline or larger axles are used. For those people on a budget, there are mini-spools available for many rearend designs. A mini-spool fits inside the standard open carrier, replacing the spider gears, and locking the left and right axle shafts together just like a spool does. A mini spool drives exactly like a full spool does, but they are not as strong as a full spool and do not add any extra support to the ring gear like a spool does."
"Spools & Mini Spools:
For racing, serious off-road, or crazy hot-rodders, a spool is the ultimate traction differential. Actually, it can hardly be called a differential because it does not differentiate. Spools have several purposes in a differential. First, they lock both left and right axles solid together so that there can be no loss of power due to the unit allowing one wheel to spin faster than the other. Second, they usually support the ring gear much better than most other differentials. Last, they can be lighter than a differential, which saves rotating mass as well as un-sprung weight that the suspension has to contain. The main shortcoming of spools is the fact that the outside wheel has to turn faster when negotiating a turn if both wheels are to maintain traction. If the axles are locked together, one or both wheels have to slip in order for the outside wheel to travel farther than the inside wheel. This can cause the rear of the vehicle to spin out, fish-tale, or can cause a lot of noise that sounds like positraction clutch chatter as the axles twist and release. Sometimes these effects are not all that bad, and they are less severe when 35-spline or larger axles are used. For those people on a budget, there are mini-spools available for many rearend designs. A mini-spool fits inside the standard open carrier, replacing the spider gears, and locking the left and right axle shafts together just like a spool does. A mini spool drives exactly like a full spool does, but they are not as strong as a full spool and do not add any extra support to the ring gear like a spool does."
stallion85
1/2 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
Ganked from Randy's
"Spools & Mini Spools:
For racing, serious off-road, or crazy hot-rodders, a spool is the ultimate traction differential. Actually, it can hardly be called a differential because it does not differentiate. Spools have several purposes in a differential. First, they lock both left and right axles solid together so that there can be no loss of power due to the unit allowing one wheel to spin faster than the other. Second, they usually support the ring gear much better than most other differentials. Last, they can be lighter than a differential, which saves rotating mass as well as un-sprung weight that the suspension has to contain. The main shortcoming of spools is the fact that the outside wheel has to turn faster when negotiating a turn if both wheels are to maintain traction. If the axles are locked together, one or both wheels have to slip in order for the outside wheel to travel farther than the inside wheel. This can cause the rear of the vehicle to spin out, fish-tale, or can cause a lot of noise that sounds like positraction clutch chatter as the axles twist and release. Sometimes these effects are not all that bad, and they are less severe when 35-spline or larger axles are used. For those people on a budget, there are mini-spools available for many rearend designs. A mini-spool fits inside the standard open carrier, replacing the spider gears, and locking the left and right axle shafts together just like a spool does. A mini spool drives exactly like a full spool does, but they are not as strong as a full spool and do not add any extra support to the ring gear like a spool does."
[/ QUOTE ]
That pretty much explains it, thanks /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Ganked from Randy's
"Spools & Mini Spools:
For racing, serious off-road, or crazy hot-rodders, a spool is the ultimate traction differential. Actually, it can hardly be called a differential because it does not differentiate. Spools have several purposes in a differential. First, they lock both left and right axles solid together so that there can be no loss of power due to the unit allowing one wheel to spin faster than the other. Second, they usually support the ring gear much better than most other differentials. Last, they can be lighter than a differential, which saves rotating mass as well as un-sprung weight that the suspension has to contain. The main shortcoming of spools is the fact that the outside wheel has to turn faster when negotiating a turn if both wheels are to maintain traction. If the axles are locked together, one or both wheels have to slip in order for the outside wheel to travel farther than the inside wheel. This can cause the rear of the vehicle to spin out, fish-tale, or can cause a lot of noise that sounds like positraction clutch chatter as the axles twist and release. Sometimes these effects are not all that bad, and they are less severe when 35-spline or larger axles are used. For those people on a budget, there are mini-spools available for many rearend designs. A mini-spool fits inside the standard open carrier, replacing the spider gears, and locking the left and right axle shafts together just like a spool does. A mini spool drives exactly like a full spool does, but they are not as strong as a full spool and do not add any extra support to the ring gear like a spool does."
[/ QUOTE ]
That pretty much explains it, thanks /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Beast388
1/2 ton status
Not to add fuel to the debate, but the factory LSD (Eaton) in my 12 bolt would rotate both tires in the SAME direction if the rear was on jack stands(with the tranny in neutral).
After I grenaded the R&P, which bent the carrier of the factory LSD, I put a new Auburn Pro-Series LSD (cone type) in the 12 bolt. It would spin the tires in the opposite direction when spun by hand.
Pop the cover off and take a look. Chances are the fluid needs changing anyways. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
After I grenaded the R&P, which bent the carrier of the factory LSD, I put a new Auburn Pro-Series LSD (cone type) in the 12 bolt. It would spin the tires in the opposite direction when spun by hand.
Pop the cover off and take a look. Chances are the fluid needs changing anyways. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
stallion85
1/2 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
Not to add fuel to the debate, but the factory LSD (Eaton) in my 12 bolt would rotate both tires in the SAME direction if the rear was on jack stands(with the tranny in neutral).
After I grenaded the R&P, which bent the carrier of the factory LSD, I put a new Auburn Pro-Series LSD (cone type) in the 12 bolt. It would spin the tires in the opposite direction when spun by hand.
Pop the cover off and take a look. Chances are the fluid needs changing anyways. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I was planning on doin that when I get back home from Atlanta, I would like to post pic's and see if anyone could identify what type it might be?
Not to add fuel to the debate, but the factory LSD (Eaton) in my 12 bolt would rotate both tires in the SAME direction if the rear was on jack stands(with the tranny in neutral).
After I grenaded the R&P, which bent the carrier of the factory LSD, I put a new Auburn Pro-Series LSD (cone type) in the 12 bolt. It would spin the tires in the opposite direction when spun by hand.
Pop the cover off and take a look. Chances are the fluid needs changing anyways. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I was planning on doin that when I get back home from Atlanta, I would like to post pic's and see if anyone could identify what type it might be?
Beast388
1/2 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
I would like to post pic's and see if anyone could identify what type it might be?
[/ QUOTE ]
Go for it. One of us will be able to ID it for ya. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
I would like to post pic's and see if anyone could identify what type it might be?
[/ QUOTE ]
Go for it. One of us will be able to ID it for ya. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
[ QUOTE ]
My old lockright in my K5 would lock up with any input of the throttle. I dont think having a spool or being welded up front with the tcase in 2wd will cause much more difficulty in turning since the front axle won't be in a bind since it's not connected to the rest of the driveline in any way, so it should slip enough to make turning little if any more difficult. Of course, on pavement you would notice, but most trails have enough of a slip to the surface that you shouldn't notice a permanently locked diff if the tcase is in 2wd. Lots of guys on pirate4x4 run front spools and welded diffs and I haven't heard any steering effort complaints there.
[/ QUOTE ]
A front spool is not AS bad in 2wd (hubs still locked)as it is in 4wd, but since the left and right side tires are travelling in different arcs, and thus have to rotate at different speeds when turning, a spool still causes a lot more drag than a locker would.
Several different guys in our club tried welded fronts a few years ago....all of them have since switched to a regular locker in the front, though they still have the rear axle welded.
My old lockright in my K5 would lock up with any input of the throttle. I dont think having a spool or being welded up front with the tcase in 2wd will cause much more difficulty in turning since the front axle won't be in a bind since it's not connected to the rest of the driveline in any way, so it should slip enough to make turning little if any more difficult. Of course, on pavement you would notice, but most trails have enough of a slip to the surface that you shouldn't notice a permanently locked diff if the tcase is in 2wd. Lots of guys on pirate4x4 run front spools and welded diffs and I haven't heard any steering effort complaints there.
[/ QUOTE ]
A front spool is not AS bad in 2wd (hubs still locked)as it is in 4wd, but since the left and right side tires are travelling in different arcs, and thus have to rotate at different speeds when turning, a spool still causes a lot more drag than a locker would.
Several different guys in our club tried welded fronts a few years ago....all of them have since switched to a regular locker in the front, though they still have the rear axle welded.
