What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

MaxPF can't decide for himself, so he needs help!

What should MaxPF do:

  • 6.2's suck! Swap in the Cummins d00d! It'll be badass!

    Votes: 8 42.1%

  • Cummins suck! Stick with the turbo'd 6.2, and see if you can pony up for a P400 down the road.

    Votes: 8 42.1%

  • Diesels suck! They're noisy and stinky! Put a gasser in there and learn to love 10MPG!

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • Total voters
    19
Wrench said:
I'll add a Cummins vote, I'm just beginning mine after long deliberation over the exact same question. I have an AMG 506 block, I have a Banks turbo kit that would fit my truck easily and be far more efficient than the GM-x turbos, I have a full stud kit, top and bottom, for the 6.5, I have a fresh 4911 pump. Stuff I've collected while planning the indestructible 6.5. I just don't like the ceiling--ok, I can buy a very expensive DB4 and make 400 horse with the right turbo. But I can spend the same money and get a Industrial Injection 14MM P-pump that will support 8-900 horse with the right turbo(s) and tuning.

I bought a '91 5.9/NV4500/NP205 driving donor truck with 130K miles for $2700 and sold the rolling chassis for $1500, plus some other small parts that brought my cost down to about $1K. I then bought a '96 5.9 auto 4x4 dually for $1500, also running and driving with 150K miles, and an HE351W turbo for $250. Custom engine mounts and crossmember from CrewCab59 (Scott) were $539 shipped to my door. Remember this is all Canadian dollars.

So--I have $3500 into it for two complete engines, one P pumped and one VE, a Dodge NV4500 and a Dodge 47RE, a Dodge 29-spline 205 and a Dodge 241DHD?, three different turbos including the ones on the engines, two complete engine and chassis wiring harnesses, and application designed mounts and crossmembers, and I still have a spare set of axles (D60 and D80) to sell, use, or whatever.

I can also sell the complete original drivetrain from my crew cab (already sold the NV4500/NP205 combo for $2100, and still have the turbo'd 6.5 with a serpentine kit on it) and I don't have to use any adapters in the driveline, which I prefer for the sake of strength, reliability, and parts availability. I can save my 6.5 stuff for a future project that won't see the same towing duty (nice DD suburban?) or sell it.

That leaves with a fair bit of room to do some injectors, pump mods, fresh gaskets, maybe even head studs, for a lot less than most people plan on spending on a 5.9 swap.

Long post to say that if you keep your eyes open, you can do the swap "right" for the same money as building a 6.5, and you never have to think about it again. My rig is for serious towing duty, and after it's set up I want to do oil changes and grease, nothing else.
Click to expand...

Hmm, you must've just skimmed my original post. I already have the Cummins, and I have already resealed it. Except for paint (which I have) it is ready to go, as is the rest of the drivetrain behind it :wink1:

Your comment about the "ceiling" on the 6.5 is one thing that really tips me in favor of the Cummins. When I go hunting I pull a 3500lb trailer behind me, in addition to having my K5 packed full of gear (I remove the back seat). I want to be able to set the cruise control at 65MPH and not downshift when I hit the 7% grades. I'm sure a P400 with a high dollar DB4 can pull that off, but then again so can the Cummins, and I already have it.
 
Well in that case it's a no-brainer. Cummins will do that with ease and will do it reliably too. Which matters the most of every thing.
 
MaxPF said:
Hmm, you must've just skimmed my original post. I already have the Cummins, and I have already resealed it. Except for paint (which I have) it is ready to go, as is the rest of the drivetrain behind it
Click to expand...

I know you do, for some reason I was sure I saw a post just above mine by some dude talking about all the hidden costs of his Cummins swap, and that's what I was referring to. Now I can't find it:confused:

seems like a lot of people get hung up on trying to fit different driveline components together, I personally have no problem running a complete Dodge powertrain. The Chev/Dodge hybrid NV4500 was something I considered as well.

If you already have the drivetrain figured out, pretty much all that's left is wiring :wink1:
 
Wrench said:
I know you do, for some reason I was sure I saw a post just above mine by some dude talking about all the hidden costs of his Cummins swap, and that's what I was referring to. Now I can't find it:confused:

seems like a lot of people get hung up on trying to fit different driveline components together, I personally have no problem running a complete Dodge powertrain. The Chev/Dodge hybrid NV4500 was something I considered as well.

If you already have the drivetrain figured out, pretty much all that's left is wiring :wink1:
Click to expand...

Oh, you're gonna love the drivetrain. You saw the crazy $hit I did with my 6.2 build, right? You don't think I'm gonna do something the easy way, do you? :haha:
 
Well, the decision has been made. Although the 6.2 is ahead by a narrow margin here, the Cummins won by a landslide everywhere else (including "verbal" votes from friends). So, in it goes!

I've already got things underway. I had already cleaned it up, so I went ahead and primed it with 5 Star's Xtreme epoxy primer, and then shot it with Western's 3rd Dimension acrylic urethane in genuine Cummins Beige.

Here's the finished product:

r-DSCF3136.JPG


r-DSCF3138.JPG


r-DSCF3144.JPG


KDP has already been staked (I didn't do it - I think this engine is a Cummins factory reman). I just need to clean up the injector pump, install and time it (PING! Demon44 - what do you think? 15 degrees good for a stock engine?), and clean, paint, and install the exhaust manifold. Turbo needs a rebuild - no biggie, I've done plenty of them. Then the last thing to do is fab an accessory bracket to mount my lifetime warranty alternator and Seltec AC compressor. Again, no biggie. Should be fun :D
 
Sheksy.

Where's the nekkid option?


My late-to-the-game and completely-diesel-noob-opinion-.0002-cents (Paraguayan) if you were asking this without a Cummins sitting there I'd say go the turbo 6.2L route and then get the P400. However since you have that thing there it seems like you're taking the obvious course.
The frame strength issue does concern me though.

Titto, again with the mythical supercharging option?
 
AJMBLAZER said:
Sheksy.

Where's the nekkid option?


My late-to-the-game and completely-diesel-noob-opinion-.0002-cents (Paraguayan) if you were asking this without a Cummins sitting there I'd say go the turbo 6.2L route and then get the P400. However since you have that thing there it seems like you're taking the obvious course.
The frame strength issue does concern me though.

Titto, again with the mythical supercharging option?
Click to expand...

Mythical? Oh really? I have plenty of links and people that beg to differ.
 
Well, at a minimum there's no off the shelf kits and he's not asking about it.

I'll shut up now.
 
Yikes...$5K for 7 psi? That might get a 6.2 up to 175-185 hp. :doah:

Rene
 
15 deg is good for a stocker. or 15.5 or 16. when i measureed the '95 from my donor dodge. it was literally at 27 degrees. i must have measured it 7 times to verify. started and ran good though.

you have the timing kit? plunger height chart?


off topic......I'm having a buddy build a manifold for my 12v with a T4E flange so I can use a new HX55 off a Detroit DD15. I can get one over the counter at work with the staff price at cost. for half of what any 66mm charger is going for new. its a brand new Holset HX55 measures 68/71/13. good big single.
 
DEMON44 said:
15 deg is good for a stocker. or 15.5 or 16. when i measureed the '95 from my donor dodge. it was literally at 27 degrees. i must have measured it 7 times to verify. started and ran good though.

you have the timing kit? plunger height chart?
Click to expand...

I don't have a "kit" per se. I have the DV socket, replacement o-rings and washers, and since I used to work as a machinist I have assorted drop indicators, test indicators, and stuff to fixture them with :wink1: Not quite as convenient as the official kit but it will get the job done. For the chart I was using the numbers listed on this page. For my CPL (1959) I should be using the 49 state 160/175HP list which is also for my non-Ram CPL. Assuming it is correct, I need 6.2mm of plunger lift to get 15 degrees of advance. Do me a fave and verify that though, if you would :D

Also, how accurate is the TDC lock pin? Hopefully it is close, since pulling the #1 injector and dropping an indicator onto the piston isn't my idea of a good time...
 
timing pin not good enough for an older engine.

drop valve method for locating TDC #1. use the pin to get you in the ball park if you want. or pull #6 valve cover and watch for #6 valve overlap. then back the engine off 1/3 rev. run in the adjuster for a valve on #1 (count the turns in). creep the piston back up until it touches. mark damper. back out adjuster. run piston through dwell all the way. run adjuster in same number of turns. creap the piston CCW till it touches valve. mark damper. 1/2 way between the marks is true TDC. including dwell. you can verify the timing pin accurately now. might be right might not be.


your CPL is the same same as mine if its 1959. mine was a for real pickup. that chart is the correct list. virtually 0.5 degrees for every 0.1mm plunger lift. you need a good metric dial for setting it up.
 
DEMON44 said:
timing pin not good enough for an older engine.

drop valve method for locating TDC #1. use the pin to get you in the ball park if you want. or pull #6 valve cover and watch for #6 valve overlap. then back the engine off 1/3 rev. run in the adjuster for a valve on #1 (count the turns in). creep the piston back up until it touches. mark damper. back out adjuster. run piston through dwell all the way. run adjuster in same number of turns. creap the piston CCW till it touches valve. mark damper. 1/2 way between the marks is true TDC. including dwell. you can verify the timing pin accurately now. might be right might not be.
Click to expand...

That works. Beats removing an injector or the rocker arm assembly and a valve spring.


your CPL is the same same as mine if its 1959. mine was a for real pickup. that chart is the correct list. virtually 0.5 degrees for every 0.1mm plunger lift. you need a good metric dial for setting it up.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't own any metric measuring instruments. But I have a real nice 3" Interapid dial indicator, and after working at my last job where all the customers blueprints were metric I can almost do the conversions on the fly :wink1: Since I need 6.2mm, that works out to .244". No problem :D
 
MaxPF said:
Oh, you're gonna love the drivetrain. You saw the crazy $hit I did with my 6.2 build, right? You don't think I'm gonna do something the easy way, do you? :haha:
Click to expand...

Oh, you can bet i have hidden motives for calling Cummins on a poll you posted :eek1: I'll start my own thread here pretty quick, and we can compare notes (read I'll steal your ideas :doah::haha:) Looking forward to it!!

Did you ever read that thread with the Cummins/Burb conversion by a guy from Norway or wherever it was? Crazy detail . . . . .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom