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muffler shop jaw jacking

Your truck is converter exempt. If it didn't come out with them, it doesn't need them. Federal law is a $2500 fine for eliminating a converter for the customer and the shop, same way if you add one. I have heard some states are different and override the federal mandate, but I am unsure. AFA Indiana goes, any alteration of the factory converter location is a federal offense.

EPA is known to call exhaust shops, and even stop in checking to see if you would take their converter off. We have been called and stopped in on many times. So the chances on the phone to get an accurate quote even is a long shot. Stop in and talk to a good reputable shop and they will know the law and what they can do.

Personally I'd stay away from shady shops, if they do it for one, they do it for many. When EPA catches on, that shop will be examined as far back as their records show, or don't. People have big mouths, and if they get caught, then they are going to be mad and tell on others they know have had it removed by the same shop. Seen it in our town before and it gets ugly. Thats why we will always stick to the law on it as we have for 30 years.
 
Cornfield creations said:
Your truck is converter exempt. If it didn't come out with them, it doesn't need them. Federal law is a $2500 fine for eliminating a converter for the customer and the shop, same way if you add one. I have heard some states are different and override the federal mandate, but I am unsure. AFA Indiana goes, any alteration of the factory converter location is a federal offense.

EPA is known to call exhaust shops, and even stop in checking to see if you would take their converter off. We have been called and stopped in on many times. So the chances on the phone to get an accurate quote even is a long shot. Stop in and talk to a good reputable shop and they will know the law and what they can do.

Personally I'd stay away from shady shops, if they do it for one, they do it for many. When EPA catches on, that shop will be examined as far back as their records show, or don't. People have big mouths, and if they get caught, then they are going to be mad and tell on others they know have had it removed by the same shop. Seen it in our town before and it gets ugly. Thats why we will always stick to the law on it as we have for 30 years.
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I had thought the fine was up higher than that now, somewhere around $10,000 max penalty. I can't remember off hand but I thought there would be 2 seperate violations, one for the vehicle and one for each converter.:dunno:
 
its touchy in different parts,

i always show up ans say its a 74. with everything removed

that way things are legal and they dont remove anything.

around here there are only certain countys that check
 
jwilson76 said:
I had thought the fine was up higher than that now, somewhere around $10,000 max penalty. I can't remember off hand but I thought there would be 2 seperate violations, one for the vehicle and one for each converter.:dunno:
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Yeah it's $2500 for each penalty- one per converter, shop and customer both get fined, but even if his did has one from factory which it didn't, it only had one, so it would be a $2500 fine for example.

These trucks didn't have converters until 78-79. 79 was a transition year which about 50% had and 50% hadn't. So it was kind of by chance is what our records show from walker. 1980 all the trucks had them- EXCEPT, diesels, and the higher GVWR vehicles, and those with 454's I believe. Most of the 454 trucks had factory 2" duals up to 87. Course there are a lot of random special built trucks out there where things vary. So basically you have to check to see if it has the tag under the hood, or a heat shield for the converter in its location.
 
I know camaros got cats in 75, and i thought light duty trucks had them in 75 as well. i know the heavier duty typically non-cat models (What i buy) have divorced chokes, and supposedly a stronger motor as well (4 bolt main, thought they had forged cranks but the one i just tore into had the 2442 cast crank sadly). Also, i think 4x4s are more common to have the heavy duty motor over the light duty at least until 79. Ive seen non-egr motors up until 1984/1985 i believe, still pissed i didnt buy that motor. Ran good for 300 but I stalled and someone else bought it.

My 77 was a half ton factory non-egr, non ac, and no cats, and thats 100% true just like my other 77s with a 350 small block, my 78 has no cars, but our 79 3/4 ton has egr not sure on cats but its alight duty 3/4 ton.
 
KansasTwister said:
I know camaros got cats in 75, and i thought light duty trucks had them in 75 as well. i know the heavier duty typically non-cat models (What i buy) have divorced chokes, and supposedly a stronger motor as well (4 bolt main, thought they had forged cranks but the one i just tore into had the 2442 cast crank sadly). Also, i think 4x4s are more common to have the heavy duty motor over the light duty at least until 79. Ive seen non-egr motors up until 1984/1985 i believe, still pissed i didnt buy that motor. Ran good for 300 but I stalled and someone else bought it.

My 77 was a half ton factory non-egr, non ac, and no cats, and thats 100% true just like my other 77s with a 350 small block, my 78 has no cars, but our 79 3/4 ton has egr not sure on cats but its alight duty 3/4 ton.
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I've had a 76 Scottsdale and a 77 Silverado...neither came with cats when new.

The 77 had a "heavy half" designation, so that may be why it didn't have cats.
 
AFAIK catalytic converters started in the early 70's except for vehicles over 6000 GVWR. A typical 4WD Blazer had a GVWR of 6200 (~4700 curb weight plus 1500 in load capacity) or so, and hence didn't get cats until '79 or so. Excluding CA of course.
 
Maybe you want cats and maybe you don't. Either way, if the truck is not currently sporting exhaust in the exact factory configuration, you have to find a "special" shop to work on it. If you ask around, somebody will know somebody who can do the job.

In my experience, buying kit and/or pre-bent parts adds up to more money than going to a cheap shop.
 
Well i just called one more place in town and spewed out all the info that you guys have been posting up, and he just looked on his computer and found multipule trucks 3/4 and up that came with out converters, he said my truck is a factory dual and had no converters, he found trucks with 454's and 350's the same way. The first company that i called surprisenly is a big company in town and gets a lot of the business. I dont know if they thought it was just some guy with some truck, i explained to this guy that the truck is not just a normal truck for the year, he specializes in performance mods on vehicals also, i told him it was a show truck so he perked up. Thanks guys for the info, my gun was loaded when I made some more calls.
 
So with all of you who have been following the exhaust and header discussion that we have been having, should i just return the 3'' and 3'' exhaust and get the stock manifold size in and then 3'' out or should i go a little smaller out? Would it affect performance that much? Im leaning more towards leaving the manifolds on and forgetting headers for now. But i do want to get the manifolds repainted along with the rest of the engine.
 
TC4x4 said:
So with all of you who have been following the exhaust and header discussion that we have been having, should i just return the 3'' and 3'' exhaust and get the stock manifold size in and then 3'' out or should i go a little smaller out? Would it affect performance that much? Im leaning more towards leaving the manifolds on and forgetting headers for now. But i do want to get the manifolds repainted along with the rest of the engine.
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On your truck I would go with stock manifolds, and 2.5" exhaust.
I would also put a cross over or H pipe, to equalize the pressure.
 
Cornfield creations said:
Yeah it's $2500 for each penalty- one per converter, shop and customer both get fined, but even if his did has one from factory which it didn't, it only had one, so it would be a $2500 fine for example.

These trucks didn't have converters until 78-79. 79 was a transition year which about 50% had and 50% hadn't. So it was kind of by chance is what our records show from walker. 1980 all the trucks had them- EXCEPT, diesels, and the higher GVWR vehicles, and those with 454's I believe. Most of the 454 trucks had factory 2" duals up to 87. Course there are a lot of random special built trucks out there where things vary. So basically you have to check to see if it has the tag under the hood, or a heat shield for the converter in its location.
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http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/vehicleengine-penalty-policy.pdf

This is what I remember reading about. On page 2 it tells about the fines changing.
 
Just so you guys know, the vast majority of states also have laws against modifying your exhaust from the factory configuration. That means routing, muffler and tube sizing. This law is routinely ignored and rarely enforced.

In addition to that the EPA has to prove the shop removed the cats. Thats a little harder to do.

I knew a guy that ran an exhuast shop till he broke his back in a car accident. He did everything legal, never removed cats, but if a customer brought in a car that should have cats on it and it didn't he had them sign a for off road use only, thing.

It help up in court the one time he had to use it.

Personally I like the way a newer high flow cat mellows the exhaust out a bit, it will also quite it down some more, which I like
 
I would like to hear a truck setup with cats only - no mufflers. Whenever I've had both, it was too quiet. I've heard trucks with the pipe rotted off behind the cat, but having full pipes would mellow it out some more.
 
my 83's back half of the muffler rusted out so im just running the factory cat with about a 3 food pipe with the shell of a muffler. Doesn't sound bad but a little on the loud side at times, being young I dont mind except when im going down residential streets at night Ive gotta keep my foot off the skinny pedal.
 
jeez i love where i live. as long as we have a tag, we can ride around with nothing but the manifold stickin out of the hood and noone would bat an eye...MAYBE if you rode around the block for a couple hours with your foot to the floor you may get the fuzz called on you for disturbing the peace. EPA? whats that? You guys live in the Nanny States of America. Thank God for Mississippi.
 
nolidnoworries said:
jeez i love where i live. as long as we have a tag, we can ride around with nothing but the manifold stickin out of the hood and noone would bat an eye...MAYBE if you rode around the block for a couple hours with your foot to the floor you may get the fuzz called on you for disturbing the peace. EPA? whats that? You guys live in the Nanny States of America. Thank God for Mississippi.
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You probably have the same laws as everyone else. Just no one really cares. I daily drove a blazer for 6 months with open headers, never got pulled over, no one cared, yet they could if they wanted too. Sat right next to a couple cops at the lights. Open headers to turndowns is LOUD very annoying but didn't have the money to do the exhaust at the time.
 
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