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Need some help with 404 mog axles

84CUCV

84CUCV

3/4 ton status
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All i know is they are from some old army truck. he has a mog that was being restored, but hes done with it. got bored. moved on to something else. what he said is they have a cable locker for the diffs. so i guess its like a OX. from what he said there is no gears for them. so what if you need to regear? unknow miles, said they should be rebuilt. i have no idea where to even look for parts. also, said they are way better then a 1 ton chevy axles. dont even know where to find wheels for them. so, are they worth it? how about going into a old chevy? any help would be great thanks
 
Well, do a search. It has been done -- Greg72, a member here, has a set in progress, IIRC, and others have done it. However, it's expensive, and weird. They have one locker and one gear choice, IIRC, i.e. factory.

Cool, yes -- they're portal axles. As gnarly as Rockwells with the brake and wheel fitment issues, plus they're made for torque tubes so you have to do work to them to use driveshafts.

-- A
 
They only have one option for locker and gear ratio: stock. They both work and hold up well, but don't expect to run it on the street.

From a shaft/gear perspective, they are stronger than 1 tons. Obviously the clearance is significantly better than non-portal axles. I've never really heard of anyone breaking shafts or ring and pinion on the 404's.

The main weakpoint is the portal boxes. People break both the portal boxes themselves and the portal gears. Replacements are hard to come by and expensive. There really is no upgrade.

Because of the way the portal axles work, you need lots of lift to clear the oil pan among other things. This makes them really tough to make work with a truck based rock crawler. Tall = not capable, in general.


'Mogs can work well on a tube chassis meant for them, but IMO they are left to dedicated tube chassis of the vehicle they came in.
 
Most of the responses you've already gotten are on the mark...

As you've probably figured out, the cable lockers are NOT an Ox-Locker, they are the original factory setup. Simple, mechanical linkages create a fully locked axle on both front and rear....user-selectable. Very nice.

Wide 6-lug pattern is odd....IIRC, Mogs came with 20" wheels from the factory, so that's probably the easiest (pronounced: cheapest) way to go. Conversion kits for 8-Lug Chevy are out there.....but they cost big money.

Pinion conversions are required to connect to standard driveshafts....about $200 ea from what I've seen.

Gearing is only available in one flavor (DEEP!).....it's 7.56:1, take it or leave it. Great for crawling, lousy for the highway.....no amount of tire is going to tame a gear that deep on the highway either. Either drive at low speed, trailer it, or spend the money on a 50% overdrive setup.

Clearance - You gain about 6 inches of pumpkin clearance over a conventional set of 1-Tons. That means that a 38" tire w/Mogs has the same clearance as a 44's on 1-Tons. It's sweet. The problem is that the axle tubes are 6" higher than usual and there will be all sorts of frame interferences (and oilpan!) unless you run a LOT of lift or go full-custom and do a buggy chassis instead.

Steering - You'll need some. It's probably going to be custom too...Mogs are set up with the tie rod behind the axle, which probably won't work due to clearance issues. Plan on designing something from scratch that has better Ackermann for your wheelbase.


38377k5 said:
The main weakpoint is the portal boxes. People break both the portal boxes themselves and the portal gears. Replacements are hard to come by and expensive. There really is no upgrade.
Click to expand...

Not true! The portals are a noted weak link in the Mog404s, but it's been addressed. Some guys have laser-cut a horseshoe shaped reinforcement and welded it to the backing plate area to stiffen the box. A company called MSI is also offering completely CNC machined portal housings to replace the factory parts...... yes, they're expensive......REALLY expensive. But purdy!

DSC01588a.jpg


DSC01587a.jpg




BOTTOM LINE:

Mog axles are really cool.....but not a cheap solution. Certainly a LOT more expensive than a conventional 1-Ton swap. Definitely do some research on the costs for converting to 8-lug, pinions, etc. before you start, and then decide if you still think it's worth it. :deal:
 
Well you wouldn't need a doubler with those gear-reduction hubs, but you might want an overdrive. I remember there was a white K5 with 'mog axles called the Hulk. He ran a second T-case reduction box, similar to a doubler setup, but with the range box backwards so that it could get up to streeet speeds.

Portal axles are worth like 1,000,000 cool points.
 
I don't mean to hijack, but what about hybrid portals? There was a Bronco that competed in Top Truck Challange several years ago that was running hybrid Mog/Dana 60 axles. It seems to me they would give you all the advantages of a Mog portal swap with none of the disadvantages.(other than expense that is) I have no clue who makes them though. It it possible to make them yourself? How hard would it be to weld up some Mog hubs to a dana 60 and get it all to work? I'm sure you would have to get custom axle shafts made, but what else? If it was as easy as welding on the hubs and having shafts made, more people would be running them, right?
 
tyrantking said:
I don't mean to hijack, but what about hybrid portals? There was a Bronco that competed in Top Truck Challange several years ago that was running hybrid Mog/Dana 60 axles. It seems to me they would give you all the advantages of a Mog portal swap with none of the disadvantages.(other than expense that is) I have no clue who makes them though. It it possible to make them yourself? How hard would it be to weld up some Mog hubs to a dana 60 and get it all to work? I'm sure you would have to get custom axle shafts made, but what else? If it was as easy as welding on the hubs and having shafts made, more people would be running them, right?
Click to expand...

You'd wanna make the hubs bolt-on, rather than weld-on ... regardless it would require some serious machining.

-- A
 
tyrantking said:
I don't mean to hijack, but what about hybrid portals? There was a Bronco that competed in Top Truck Challange several years ago that was running hybrid Mog/Dana 60 axles. It seems to me they would give you all the advantages of a Mog portal swap with none of the disadvantages.(other than expense that is) I have no clue who makes them though. It it possible to make them yourself? How hard would it be to weld up some Mog hubs to a dana 60 and get it all to work? I'm sure you would have to get custom axle shafts made, but what else? If it was as easy as welding on the hubs and having shafts made, more people would be running them, right?
Click to expand...
well the hubs wont be welded, the old inner c's on the axle (dana 60 or what ever u use) would need to be removed and then mog c's and knuckles would have to be installed.

Does anyone know the best place to get mog portals/knuckles/c's? I know local 4x4 shop that just started building custom axles (currie centers, Solid axle tubes, dedenbear c's and knuckles) I asked about building a hybrid portal axle, but they didnt know where to get the need mog parts (other than cutting up an old mog axle)
 
Greg72 said:
Clearance - You gain about 6 inches of pumpkin clearance over a conventional set of 1-Tons. That means that a 38" tire w/Mogs has the same clearance as a 44's on 1-Tons. It's sweet. The problem is that the axle tubes are 6" higher than usual and there will be all sorts of frame interferences (and oilpan!) unless you run a LOT of lift or go full-custom and do a buggy chassis instead.
Click to expand...

You're off by a factor of 2. 6 inches of clearance at the diff would have to come from tires 12 inches bigger. 44's on a 60 would have the same diff clearance as 32's on mogs.
 
tyrantking said:
I don't mean to hijack, but what about hybrid portals? There was a Bronco that competed in Top Truck Challange several years ago that was running hybrid Mog/Dana 60 axles. It seems to me they would give you all the advantages of a Mog portal swap with none of the disadvantages.(other than expense that is) I have no clue who makes them though. It it possible to make them yourself? How hard would it be to weld up some Mog hubs to a dana 60 and get it all to work? I'm sure you would have to get custom axle shafts made, but what else? If it was as easy as welding on the hubs and having shafts made, more people would be running them, right?
Click to expand...

Why start with a 60 center section? 9"s have better clearance and have a stronger ring and pinion.
 
38377k5 said:
Why start with a 60 center section? 9"s have better clearance and have a stronger ring and pinion.
Click to expand...
You have a good point there. I have seen that setup done before on buggys
 
14 bolt/ mog hybrid!!!!!:bow:

84cucv, check w/ ox on nj4w. he's beenrunning 404s under his green bronco and planning on swapping in some 406s. there was alot of fab work to get them to work. there's ALOT of axle wrap due to the portal box on leaf springs w/out some type of traction bar.
 
84CUCV said:
what do you mean by 9s? only thing i can think of is ferd 9"
Click to expand...

Yep, a Ford 9". Its small, light, and is has a VERY strong ring and pinion. Stronger than a 60 by quite a bit. Plus there's tons of aftermarket support thanks to the racers.

Yeah, a 14 bolt ring, pinion, and carrier are stronger than a 9". But you're giving up 3/4 of an inch of tire clearance.
 
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