new no tuning fuel injection

[ThaMule]

mass flo efi put out a new fuel injection that will work with any engine combination you have. no tuning ever guaranteed. www.massfloefi.com is the website. what i am looking for are some cons to this product, if any. I dont want price as con. if you gotta ask then you cant afford it! help me out here guys and read the site and see if you can find some cons.

 

[gmc4cw]

If you are going to drive it everyday and keep it for years then I do not see a drawback to this. it's basically an off the shelf compilation of whats under the hood of my 2000 sierra.

For me, price would scare me away. My DD already has fuel injection and I don't wheel the trail truck enough to justify that kind of money. If I ever swapped from a carb it would be to propane next, then fuel injection if I was having problems with the propane.

my carb is dialed in at this point. I hardly ever stall it offroad. But if you need a new carb now and have the money, go for it. report back on how it works.

 

[rhuarc31]

I have my doubts. Yes a Mass air meter can make a motor more flexible as far as tune, but it is not a cure all. Just check with all the guys tuning MAF systems for hi-po motors. As I read the web site, what they're really saying is that call them, tell them about your motor, and they put together a package that will be close enough for the MAF to make corrections. If you make a big change later you have to send the thing back to them for recalibration. How does that translate to no tune? Heck all the other systems send you a base map that will be close too. Remember the old saying about how if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.

On the other hand, I do prefer a MAF system to MAP, and I do like the way the system looks. If you're not planning on making any big changes it may not be a bad way to go. The price is not a con by the way, check out the price of other multi port aftermarket setup's, they're not far off.

If you decide to try it keep us posted.

 

[dyeager535]

Do a search on the mass flo, we discussed this awhile back. IMO a bunch of hype over factory parts. They talk about how bad the factory stuff is, yet cobbled a system together (no matter how well it ties together) made from factory parts.

 

[Blue85]

They don't look trustworthy to me.

reality is, programmable speed density EFI systems are not much more efficient than a 4 bbl carburetor. You're punching keys on a computer, rather than turning screws and changing jets and springs in a carburetor. The end result is an expensive system, that cost almost as much money to get tuned properly as the initial cost of the system. And where is the advantage? They require constant laptop fiddling to keep running properly. You could have gotten that with a carburetor! They are a little more efficient than a carburetor, but not enough to justify the cost.

See that, they are blowing smoke. The constant fiddling with a laptop line is a joke. How would theirs "stay in tune" any better than other systems would? Factory ECUs actually do autotune based on long term monitoring of fuel trims. When's the last time you brought in your stock 1990+ vehicle to have the ECU "re-tuned"?

It is possible to tune the fuel tables automatically, but it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to tune for the transient conditions automatically. They don't seem to mention this, so they are probably relying on presets based on your engine. My guess is that you have a custom engine they will screw the pooch in this area. Tuning the transients is like 90% of the difficulty in tuning. Setting timing automatically is also questionable. You can set everything just shy of pinging with the knock sensor, but those are not necessarily the best settings.

I like the throttle body a lot, though.

Personally, I would be really mad if I paid $3-4k for an EFI system and I couldn't change the settings if I wanted to. Special tuning to change the rev limiting point? That's ridiculous. It looks like all of their systems use Ford ECMs. It is likely that there is something on the market to tune Fords, but those tools should be included with a custom system.

 

[ThaMule]

Hey guys, this is all excellent info. I like the way all of you think and i get opinions from every different angle. I agree with the to goo to be true theory, thats why i posted it here to see what everyone else thought. yeah, i didnt think the price was a con but i know that someone here would have said it was and that is an answer that i hate seeing on these forums because price to one person may not be a problem to another. There was also a write up about this in this months chevy power magazine.

 

[Blue85]

This part seems like mis-information to me. They are blaming the age-old injector sizing dilemna on the type of fuel injection being used.

TBI systems use two injectors. Sometimes they use four injectors. Our port EFI system uses eight injectors. To illustrate why this is important, lets use a pretty typical horsepower figure for a performance V8 engine. 450hp is fairly easy to achieve, and is a realistic figure, so that is what we will use for this example. A 450hp V8 engine, using eight injectors would require 30pph (pounds per hour) injectors. The same engine with four injectors would require 60pph injectors. The larger the injector, the sloppier it gets at low RPMs, and the less efficient they become. Poor idle quality and poor fuel economy are the result. For you power hungry fellows, lets consider something more extreme. Lets say the engine is supercharged, and makes 800hp at the flywheel. With eight injectors, you would use 60pph injectors, and those 60pph injectors would work just fine, since this engine will suck up a little sloppiness without issue. But the TBI system would need 120pph injectors. Also keep in mind... at idle, the supercharger is not producing any boost, and the engine is not producing any more power than it would without the supercharger, so it cannot use all that extra fuel. Now that's sloppy! I'm sure you can do the math on the two injector systems...

Yes, using big injectors makes idle harder, but this is independant of whether you are using port or TBI. Sure the port injector is smaller in an absolute sense, but it's still oversized for that single cylinder when you are set up for high HP.

The real advantages of port injection are matched fuel flow to each cylinder, the design advantages of a dry manifold (which they don't seem to take advantage of) and potentially, sequential injection.

These systems are probably good, but the hype would make me worry.

 

[ntsqd]

I think it looks like an eec-IV computer too. If so, then search "tweecer" and you'll find the dominate eec-IV computer tuning hard/software. There is an email list out there dedicated to just this system. Lots of people putting eec-IV's on other stuff. An early EFI conversions guy in the greater Sacramento, CA area put one on a 383 SBC in a CJ5 in about '97. Earliest non-Ford install that I know of.

IIRC the MAF 5.0 Mustangs & possibly the Crown Vics are sequential injection, while all others or bank fired.