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No start after odd hesitation issue

G

GoGoGirl

1/2 ton status
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Location
Vermont
Vehicle in question is a 1985 M1009 CUCV (K5) with a gas 350 and 12 volt conversion.

I have had no such issues in the 3 months or so that I've owned this truck so far. She can be a pain to start but patience and gentle manipulation of the manual choke usually coax the engine to life rather quickly.

I've decided to put the ideas I've found/my options in bold for quick reference.

Took a ride out in the old girl yesterday to get 'er measured for new hydraulic plow hoses. All was well until ascending a relatively steep, but short, grade near home. The engine started hesitating, never stalling out, never sounding really "bad", just got sloppy and lost some power as I went up the hill. Gently trying to give it more gas made no difference.

Got over the hill and all seemed back to normal.

My driveway slopes uphill toward where I park this beast, and I've never had a problem with that, including yesterday. Drove right up the driveway and parked. No hesitation, nothing unusual.

Yesterday I went out to start 'er up, and it wouldn't catch. Starter sounds normal but the engine barely engaged. I got a few rumbles out of it as if it was about to start normally, but it never started.

Went online, people mentioned new plug wires and fuel filter as simple concerns. I always believe in starting with the simple and cheap things to fix. My plug wires (and plugs) are nearly new, honestly less than 25 miles on them, and my fuel filter has perhaps 50 miles on it. Those are some of the first things I changed when I got the vehicle.

A friend of mine said maybe there is condensation in the gas tank. Now, let me say here, I do not know for sure how accurate the fuel gauge is. The previous owner said it is, but I take that with a grain of salt. The tank read "full" when I got the vehicle. I have not added gas and it shows half a tank now. So the gas is roughly 2 months old or more. I bought two bottles of Heet gas drying alcohol stuff, and put those in the tank yesterday. I was told it may take a couple of days to work. With a snowstorm imminent within the next day or so, I want this truck to plow, so just now I tried starting it again, and no luck. The Heet has been in my tank roughly 16 hours. For what it's worth, most people in the area buy the ethanol gas at the major gas stations, so I would imagine the previous owner did.

Did some more reading online. Perhaps the position it is parked in is the problem? The nose of the vehicle points slightly uphill. It seems that may promote air creeping into the fuel system. Have never had that problem with any modern fuel-injected vehicles I've owned in the same driveway, so it may be the case with this one.

I cranked and cranked until my hand hurt from holding the key forward, and the battery sounded nearly dead (it is on a 10A charger now). The darn thing still doesn't want to start. I was thinking of getting 5gal of ethanol-free gas to see if that might be all it is thirsty for.

I would love to move the truck to level ground and try to start it, however I can't because if I rolled it backwards (down a slight hill), it would block a shared driveway, as well as block me in, if it didn't start. This is a narrow (heavy tree cover), rural, dirt driveway and I don't think a tow could be easily done if the vehicle got stuck there. Then again I have seen some miraculous towing done as I've worked in law enforcement and fire/rescue for many years.

What are your thoughts?
 
had this happen on a 350 before with the coil, can you check for spark?
 
Check spark by pulling a plug wire off and sticking a used plug in it,lie it on the engine to ground and crank it over,see if there is spark..
Chances are it'll have spark,since you said it did sound like it fired up "some" while you cranked it over..

Sounds like it could be lack of enough fuel to the carb,(or possibly its badly flooded--more on that later)--
I'd pull the fuel line off at the carb or after the fuel pump to the carb, put it in a jar and crank it over--see how much fuel comes out and if it is cloudy or dark,that will indicate water or dirt,rust,etc...

If you cant get a pint to pump out after cranking it for about 15 seconds ,its likely the fuel pump is dying or dead,or the incoming fuel line to the pump from the tank is plugged up or maybe has a rot hole in the metal section,allowing air to get sucked in,instead of sucking fuel from the tank..this can happen and no gas will leak out in some cases,when old rusty fuel lines get porus..

I've had a rubber hose that was about a foot long located over the rear wheel well frame area that joined two factory steel fuel lines,that separated inside and caused the truck to die on a long uphill grade,or when you needed passing gear the most!--the truck was a hazard to drive,never knowing when it would start stalling out on you when the road was inclined--especially on interstates..

I replaced the fuel pump,tried another carb,and also did a complete tune up,a different HEI distributor,it still did the same thing--one day when I saw that hose,I figured since it was original and craking,it was time to ditch it..right after that the truck felt like it gained 50 hp,and never bogged down or stalled again..

Sometimes an engine gets so badly flooded,it kills the spark plugs,and wont fire at all until fresh plugs are installed--sometimes after letting it sit and "dry out" for a few hours will let it run again--Champion plugs seem to die for good however,once you flood them bad..

A bad choke pull off caused this to happen on many carbed trucks with HEI,especially the '75 and '76 engines that had extended gap plugs gapped as wide as .080--in cold weather a lot of those engine either didn't start up well,or started OK,then the choke pull off failed to open the choke enough,and it would load up,flood,and stall,and refuse to start until the plugs either were replaced or allowed to dry out..GM's "fix" was to put plugs in with .035 gaps instead,and from '77 on they stayed with either .035 or .045 gap plugs..
 
I agree with @diesel4me's points. But I would add that I have resurrected many a flooded plug by removing it from the engine and cooking the engine side with a blow torch. It burns the fuel off and also dries it out. Just in case that winds up being part of the problem here.
 
I've had to do that too,on both my old trucks and many small engines,snowblowers especially !--but I usually opted to put new plugs in ,seeing they had to be removed anyway,if I had the money..once they get gas washed they seemed a lot more likely to do it again,and possibly not ever fire again..
 
Thanks for all the replies! Unfortunately, as you can see I was up early Sunday posting this, I took a nap at some point and when I woke up I was sick as a dog and spent most of the past day and a half or so in bed. So the snow has come and gone without me having the time to get back out to the truck at all.

I haven't checked for spark, I know how to do that on a small engine but not a vehicle until now, but I will have to, thank you.

It just sucks that after that weird hesitation on the hill, the darn thing wouldn't start again. It had always started and been doing well before!

And hmm, interesting notes on the plugs. Frankly I haven't crawled around the engine compartment enough to even get the numbers off the block to make a positive ID of the engine yet. So when I replaced the plugs I used the exact same model that was in there before, that being (probably OEM???) AC Delco CR43TS. I read and read and read some more about what the gap should be. It seemed most folks did .035, .040, or .045, so I split the difference so to speak and gapped them .040.

One thing about this engine is that the valve covers clearly have Mercruiser tags on them. Yet I see no other sign of this possibly being a former marine engine. I have a vague memory of a friend's inboard motor having weird manifolds on it that circulated the water that the boat was in...I may be wrong though.
 
It is possible someone just swapped Mercruiser valve covers on it at some time...a true marine engine would probably have water cooled exhaust manifolds,but I think it is possible to put truck or car ones on a marine engine and use it in a vehicle with no issues...so it "could" be out of a boat..
I'm not sure if the I.D. numbers or codes on the block would tell if it was a marine engine or not--someone else here like Ryoken who deals with boats for a living might know..

I have had the chance to get a few free 454's from junk boats,but they were seized up and everything was so crusty and corroded I passed on them..the fact I'd either have a junk boat to dispose of,or sit in my yard "forever" just to get a free (and probably junk !) engine, wasn't worth it to me..
 
technically, the only thing you'll see different on a marine mill are brass freeze plugs... well that, and if it's an oldschool reverse rotation....

obviously cam spec's, heads, etc are specific to whatever merc was trying to achieve for that app....

exhaust doesn't matter.. yes, boats have big water cooled manifolds, but they are the same heads, so manifolds, headers will work..

if it is a merc mill, it will have a tag on the lower rear passenger side of the mill.. right by the bellhousing.. wouldn't be easy to spot in a vehicle... could be just valve covers, but i'd be more likely to think it was the whole engine dumped in there... if it was a fresh-water boat, it's not an issue... raw-water cooled boat, not so much.. that means saltwater was running thru the block, not good...



plenty of people have run marine motors in vehicles... my bud had a carbed 454 from one in his El Camino... heck, if I wasn't going 6BT in Mutt, I'd be dropping in a roller 502 out of a boat..

if I get a couple minutes i'll go back to the beginning and read about the actual issue here...
 
6872xtc said:
TTT....

Did you get this running ?
Click to expand...

Hello, yes I did, my apologies for the lack of an update, I was real sick for about a week with a respiratory thing that kicked my ass, I fell behind on work and finally got to the truck.

So way back when I had changed the plugs and wires, which it needed badly. But I ran out of time that day and never got around to doing the cap and rotor...big mistake!

I climbed into the engine bay, removed the air cleaner, and visually once again thought that the distributor looked fine from the outside...why change anything? But I removed the cap and, wow!!! Broken plastic on the inside, center contact displaced/broken off, horribly dirty rotor, just a bad sight to see! Popped in the new Summit Racing rotor, put the new cap on, attached the plug wires, and fingers crossed! Got in the cab and BAM!! she started right up like never before! Running and driving perfectly now, she just needs some time to warm up in this cold weather we are having.

So thanks all for viewing my thread and keeping my sanity throughout this ordeal :)
 
This reminds me of a time when I had my dad's '68 Chevelle Wagon with a 307 many years ago,when I was about 19--I was 15 miles from home when the car started stalling when I gave it more throttle.

--I pulled into a gas station and the engine would start right up again and run great in park or neutral,but the minute I put it in drive or reverse and tried to accelerate it would sputter out and die..

I though it might be low on gas,the gauge showed 1/4 of a tank,but maybe it was wrong ?..

I decided to put 10 bucks worth of gas in it,only to discover I lacked a key for the locking gas cap!--the attendant at the gas station lent me a pry bar and I got the gas cap off,and I put more gas in it--now I had no gas cap--!

"No problem",the attendant says--he reaches under the counter and pulls out a basket with about 50 gas caps in it-!-

"A lot of people forget them and drive off,and never come back!"--I picked one that fit,and set about inspecting the engine in hopes I'd find the problem..

I suspected a clogged gas filter or fuel line,but I managed to get the fuel line off at the carb where it had a short rubber hose with pliers ,and cranking it over, filled a soda can with gas rapidly,so it wasn't that..(I had put an inline gas filter in the fuel line and ditched the original one that went inside the carb)...

I was baffled,since it would start,idle,and rev up fine in park or neutral,it just couldn't pull a load,or even get the car moving,even if I feathered the gas pedal..

A older guy pulled up to the pumps next to me in a older Chevy pickup,like a '71 C-10,saw me under the hood ,telling my friend to start it,shut it off,and he asked what it was doing--so I put it in drive and showed him..

"I bet its your distributor cap",he says..

I said "well,I dont have a spare,and they only sell gas here,not parts"..

The guy says "hold on a minute,let me look and see if I have one".and he poked around behind the seat and comes out with a grungy old cap and rotor--"I always keep the old ones in the truck when I do a tune up--might be old and dirty,but they worked OK when removed"..

I took off the distributor cap,and it looked brand new inside,the rotor looked OK too,but I put the guys used cap & rotor on,and the car fired right up,and I tried power braking it,and it pulled nice and strong!...fixed!..

I thanked the guy,told him I'd have given him some money for his help and parts,but I'd just put my last ten bucks in the gas tank..
"Ahh,no biggie--hope you get home OK,buy a new cap and rotor and put it on tomorrow--and keep the old ones !..

I got home no problem and did buy a new cap and rotor the next day and put them on,but before I did,I looked over the original cap & rotor and they looked perfect,no cracks or burnt spots,carbon tracks,etc--I tried putting the old cap on with the guy's used rotor and it ran perfect..tried the original rotor, and it went back to sputtering out under a load--so evidently the rotor was letting the spark ground out when you put a load on the engine..

I took a hammer to that rotor to ensure it never got used again !..kept the original cap, and the cap & rotor the guy gave me,and stashed it in the car..that was the only time that car ever acted up when I drove it..my dad had very good luck with it too..
 
I am reviving this thread because apparently part of this issue isn't resolved.

As mentioned above, new cap and rotor went in as soon as I read the recommendations from you folks.

In the meantime I have also plugged a hose leading from the carb which may have been causing a vacuum leak.

Today I drove on the same steep hill where the Blazer hesitated and felt bogged down before when I originally created this thread. A similar thing happened but nowhere near as bad. It did not sound or feel like the engine was about to die like it did before, but it slowed down and got sluggish.

My questions are:

I did some reading online and wonder if I may have messed up the timing or something when I changed the cap and rotor. Is that possible, even if I did the job with utmost care?

Could it just be the simple fact that this vehicle is new to me and I do not have any past experience driving a heavy, carbureted beast, and that's just the way it is when these trucks climb steep hills?
 
You always check your timing after cap rotor and/or plugs, or at least I do
 
I would have to wonder if the carburetor is even tuned right to begin with.
What one does it have?
Maybe you could post up a picture of the engine, maybe a couple of angles so that if something jumps out, we can see it??
 
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