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NP205 pto for hydraulic pump

Joe91M

Joe91M

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So I have searched the Internet far and wide, and put in a few phone calls to the nearest wet kit supplier. No one has been able to give me a real downside to running a hydraulic winch using the pto. I understand the benefits of electric as far as engine off self recovery, but I think that running a good hydraulic setup with a spool valve in the cab as well as controls for the mechanical lock and Ranges is what would work for me. I guess I'm just having a hard time with the thought of a power steering pump running a ram assist, a hydrobooster, my normal steering and a winch on top of that. I have had several plow trucks that had a belt driven hydraulic pump on a separate v belt, but I can't justify another accessory or tying up more space in the engine compartment. Also not sure I trust the electric clutch. Any thoughts would be appreciated
 
Same thing I have thought about doing but the opportunity has not arisen yet
 
Remember that if you needed to use the engine power to help the winch, you wouldn't be able to 'feather ' it. I don't know how to explain it well. With the pto engaged, you will need some rpms to have good presume and flow out of the pump. If you don't have the t-case in neutral, you may not have the speed of the driveshaft high enough for the pump to function as well.

Did I make sense?
 
first off what brand / model of hydro winch .?

this info will help us get you to were you need to be .

I have a pto and pump for my 205 I will be using . and I am going to be feeding a ramsey 8000 winch with a flow rate of 15gpm 2500 psi . fyi that's a decent size pump . but also this is a dedicated real duty hydro winch .
 
I'm looking at a new old stock hmmwv winch I found at work. I got told to clean the shop stock and since we work on tracks, we don't "need" wheeled parts. I wanna say it's a mile marker but it's been a while
 
yes should be a mm unit .

that will be a lot less flow rate than like I am going to run .

why not just fab up a second p/s pump dedicated to just that . or even a clutch pump drivin off the engine like a lot of commercial stuff does these days .

if I didn't already have the pto stuff I would be doing a engine drivin clutch pump .
 
Hey sweetK30, I have to ask, have you ever been around a clutch pump? I have not, when I was working for a wrecker service, we didn't have any small automatic trucks.
I assume that you wouldn't state that you would use them without experience.
 
1. I am not sold on the reliability of the electric clutch idea as I have shut trucks off before from wet mud across the terminals.
2. I am running a 700r4 with a soon to be twin stocked 205 and I have the pto available.
3. I'm stubborn and I wanna build a unique truck that may play a little bit but is gonna hopefully be more for logging trails in New England where I'm more likely to need to move a tree than pull myself out of a swamp.
4. Because everyone says it's a bad idea?
 
Cool!
And as most will tell you, it's yours build it how you want!
The scenario that I hope that I described is the only downside that I see to your idea. As long as you are good with it, do it!
I wanted to wanted to out a wet kit on my old '79, even had a pto, but never did it and sold all the parts. ..
But I like hydraulics.
 
got a belt drive clutch pump on my plow truck been doing fine for years . its a fisher plow setup so smaller gpm and psi than real hydro stuff.

but she zings the plow up/down/left/right just fine. and its a clutch pump from the early days of fisher mm1 plow setups that still used live hydro . but I swaped it to my old conventional speedcast plow setup and works just fine.
 
A part of me envisions using my little step side single cab as a sort of rough duty service truck in the future with a few hydraulic ports to fill or activate hydraulic cylinders in hard to reach places, but I'm realistic. It's a half ton. And I still wanna be able to play with it so ya. I'm at a stand still for now.
 
sweetk30 said:
got a belt drive clutch pump on my plow truck been doing fine for years . its a fisher plow setup so smaller gpm and psi than real hydro stuff.

but she zings the plow up/down/left/right just fine. and its a clutch pump from the early days of fisher mm1 plow setups that still used live hydro . but I swaped it to my old conventional speedcast plow setup and works just fine.
Click to expand...

The older Fisher pumps that aren't "sealed" actually used the same guts as a stock Saginaw GM P/S pump...I would think one would power a winch OK provided your not in a big hurry--they put out about 2 gpm in stock form at best,the pressure is around 1500 psi,so it'll work,but not break any speed records..adding a second P/S pump wouldn't be that tough on most vehicles (or a used Fisher plow pump,factory brackets are available for those )..

One thing though--if your "stuck" because your engine died,or the transmission has some issue,now you cant power the winch with a PTO..electric ones can kill batteries fast...hard to say any of the options to power a winch are bullet proof...

A guy I know made a portable hydraulic power unit from a pressure washer with a gas engine--the water pump froze and cracked,so it was tossed away--he removed the junk pump and hooked up a power steering pump to the engine,which is still on the wheeled cart it came equipped with..now he can use that to power a winch,or lift up impliments on his farm tractor if it has issues,he has also used it to power a log splitter,it is a bit slow,but works ok...has a 6.5 HP engine...

I know its a pain to carry such a thing around,and have gas on hand for it,but it could get you out of a bind..
 
sweetk30 said:
got a belt drive clutch pump on my plow truck been doing fine for years . its a fisher plow setup so smaller gpm and psi than real hydro stuff.

but she zings the plow up/down/left/right just fine. and its a clutch pump from the early days of fisher mm1 plow setups that still used live hydro . but I swaped it to my old conventional speedcast plow setup and works just fine.
Click to expand...

The older Fisher pumps that aren't "sealed" actually used the same guts as a stock Saginaw GM P/S pump...I would think one would power a winch OK provided your not in a big hurry--they put out about 2 gpm in stock form at best,the pressure is around 1500 psi,so it'll work,but not break any speed records..adding a second P/S pump wouldn't be that tough on most vehicles (or a used Fisher plow pump,factory brackets are available for those )..

One thing though--if your "stuck" because your engine died,or the transmission has some issue,now you cant power the winch with a PTO..electric ones can kill batteries fast...hard to say any of the options to power a winch are bullet proof...

A guy I know made a portable hydraulic power unit from a pressure washer with a gas engine--the water pump froze and cracked,so it was tossed away--he removed the junk pump and hooked up a power steering pump to the engine,which is still on the wheeled cart it came equipped with..now he can use that to power a winch,or lift up impliments on his farm tractor if it has issues,he has also used it to power a log splitter,it is a bit slow,but works ok...has a 6.5 HP engine...

I know its a pain to carry such a thing around,and have gas on hand for it,but it could get you out of a bind..
 
Joe91M said:
My bad. I typed in 205 pto for hydro winch and that didn't come up. I appreciate it
Click to expand...
Not a problem. When using the search here, sometimes less is more. Do a search on "winch", and lots of stuff will pop up. And, "PTO winch" would be a narrower result.
Not sure why double posts are happening again. I'm sure the powers that be will fix it soon. They are darn good.

Note: if you go PTO Hydraulic off of a 205, then the pump will turn in whatever direction the transmission is shifted. There are several types of hydraulic pumps.
Some are very directional, some just will not pump backwards, and some don't care. Will pump either way. I made a lot of mistakes when I did my winch setup.
The winch on my old truck was a shaft drive PTO, but I could not get a shaft up to the front on the new truck. Since the truck was in the shop having the bumper built and getting ready to put on the winch, time was short.

So I did not do the research I should have. To get the pump setup, I called a supplier, told him I had an NP205, and I wanted 20gpm@1500psi at about 1500 rpms.
I got the gpm and psi requirements from the guys who sold me the new winch. That was the max needed, and since I tend to max out my winches from time to time, I wanted the most it would need.

I did not ask what type of pump they were sending me, or much of anything. Just bought it and slapped it on. Later, I wondered what would happen if I spun it backwards. I called the place that sold me the pump, and asked. They said it would probably blow out the front seal.
Since then, I have been extremely careful to disengage the PTO before putting the transmission in reverse. I have had other folks say that most likely it would not hurt anything, but I'm not going to try it.
Well, if I am lying in my deathbed, and the truck is close by, I may tell my friends to go out, put the PTO in gear and put the transmission in reverse and see what happens........

If I had it all to do over, I would put on a bi-directional pump, a different control valve, and a better tank. I built the tank so it would fit under my tool box and still be big enough to keep the oil cool.

Being an electronics engineer, I did not do a good hydraulics job. No baffles, no sight glass or dip stick to see how much fluid it has, no replaceable or cleanable output strainer, and no drain to help change the fluid.

But, despite all my mistakes, it has gotten me, all my friends, and lots of strangers out of trouble since 1989, so I guess I did something right
 
I'm planning on running a Cummins fuel tank that I found at work in the bed, and if I am thinking right, I should have enough room to the side of it to run a 5 gallon hydraulic tank. At the risk of overbuilding my setup, what thoughts do y'all have for hydraulic coolers? Overkill?
 
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