Shackle flip vs springs

[Space Toast]

Looking at a 4-6" lift for a '90 that is currently stock. Somebody explain the pros/cons

Also... looking to put a 14 bolt FF rear and I'm really interested in Alcan springs if that sways opinions

Thanks

 

[Bent77]

Flip rides better and costs more usually because of the brackets

Spring has less body roll and tows better


I voted flipping

 

[Fastereddie]

Flip and ord springs ftw.

 

[K5wrench]

Flip.
Rides better.
I did the 4" flip on my 86.
A lot of the ride improvement was all new bushings.
But the shackle flip and stock rear springs was the other half.

 

[campfire]

Flip rides better and costs more usually because of the brackets

Costs more? I can't buy new springs for the cost of the shackle flip brackets. I guess it costs more if you're buying new springs AND the brackets.

Flip.
Rides better.

Rides better than what? I'd take good springs in tension vs. stiff springs with a flip.

@Space Toast, if I were buying custom springs I'd simply stick with the stock tension shackles. The shackle flip tweaks your pinion angle and limits travel some, while throwing off your spring rate during movement. People argue back and forth, and both ways work. But they're not equivalent.

Here's a short summary from ORD. Click the link to see a whole thread of back-and-forth on suspension questions.

Tension shackles work better. Shackle flips work good within a budget. Reason for this is the tension shackle can drop the tail end of the spring by the full height of the shackle when it goes to full droop since the shackle will go from standing straight up to fully horizontal or a little below. This is at least a couple inches of free droop travel compared to a compression shackle. They have some potentially desirable rate gain characteristics when they are overloaded but that's usually not what we're worried about, it's the travel potential that makes them cool to us. It takes a more expensive spring to take advantage of the tension shackle so the flip is the bang-for-the-buck winner. Not the performance winner.

 

[sweetk30]

also 4" and up on a blazer = min of rear driveshaft work as in a custom shaft and possible c/v style shaft .

so plan out your tire size to look ratio and build from there .

here is a few basic build plans for options .

4" total lift and 35" tires . = 3" tuff country lift for good off the shelf ride . maybe a flip rear with zero rate . 1" body lift with new body bushing kit .

5" lift same as before but 4" springs / 4" flip rear . 1" body lift and bushings .

dont forget any flip in the rear = reset possible of pinion angle required.

up to a 3" lift also no real steering correction needed for street driving . but possible for offroad use more .

its good your planning this out . and nothing against custom springs also . these were just my budget minded options .

 

[K85 Octane]

1st question

What do you plan to do with the truck?

 

[Justin V]

I'm guessing lunar rover.

The lack of atmosphere and considerably less gravity give the @Space Toast just the right crunch without being burnt.

 

[Space Toast]

I'm guessing lunar rover.

The lack of atmosphere and considerably less gravity give the @Space Toast just the right crunch without being burnt.

Meh...the moon is played out. I'm working with Elon Musk on this thing to go to Mars

Seriously I just want a good balance between street manners and general off-road ability. I'm not going to be exclusively mud bogging or rock crawling...doubt I tow much. I understand ORD has their springs made by Alcan... I'd rather just go to the source as opposed to paying markup

The truck is a '90... getting an LS92 & 6L80E swap...4-6" lift, 35ish tires on 16" wheels, probably 4.56 gears, 14 bolt FF rear w/disc, would like a Dana 60 front but will probably stick with a 8 lug swap for now since the 44 should have the 30 spline axles... I've got access to a good custom driveshaft shop so c/v is not an issue

 

[obijuank5]

From all the crap I've had I really cant tell a difference. On my last two trucks I run Procomp front and rear springs and bilstien shocks.
Fork the rivets. Bolt some springs in and be done. I have had it all. I dont think the flips are all they are hyped up to be. But I wheel it. It works well.

 

[K5wrench]

Mine rides better after the shackle flip using the stock rear springs than Blazers I have ridden in with new, higher arched rear springs.
But as I said, impossible to know how much of that was due to replacing all the bushings.

 

[sweetk30]

alcan makes them to ord specs . big difference . not to say the alcan's suck by them self .

 

[campfire]

would like a Dana 60 front but will probably stick with a 8 lug swap for now since the 44 should have the 30 spline axles

Tech note, that shouldn't be a D44 front axle. Check your diff cover before ordering parts.

 

[campfire]

And I have a soft spot for that Fiero hiding back there.

 

[Space Toast]

Tech note, that shouldn't be a D44 front axle. Check your diff cover before ordering parts.

Yep... I misspoke on that...10 bolt

 

[Space Toast]

alcan makes them to ord specs . big difference . not to say the alcan's suck by them self .

Interesting...in looking at the Alcan website it looks like they do everything custom based on how you plan to use it. You really think ORD is telling them specifically how to make them?

 

[Blue85]

M I understand ORD has their springs made by Alcan... I'd rather just go to the source as opposed to paying markup

Have you priced both? I don't think there's much difference if you look apples to apples. Before you decide an "Alcan" is a better deal than an "ORD" compare how many leaves you're getting and how well the spring rate will be matched to the truck. What ORD has done is decrease the leaf thickness and increase the leaf count. This makes the spring more durable. Just look at all the stories of trashed stock rear 52's after mounting them up front and getting big flex. The ORD packs have 11 or more thin leaves. Just visualize spring steel flexing a certain amount. It's obvious that the thicker the steel, the more stress happens along the top and bottom.

Interesting...in looking at the Alcan website it looks like they do everything custom based on how you plan to use it. You really think ORD is telling them specifically how to make them?

Yes, that's exactly how it works. ORD has some basic Chevy spring designs based on years of experience with the platform. They tweak that for the right height and spring rate you need under your truck. Alcan manufactures to that design, i.e. "build to print". ORD are the Chevy experts. Alcan are spring manufacturing experts with proven quality. Win-win.

 

[campfire]

You really think ORD is telling them specifically how to make them?

Yes. ALCAN manufacturers custom springs for ORD, to their specs. They also sell custom springs directly, using their own specs.

Have you priced both? I don't think there's much difference if you look apples to apples.

I think it's significant. 2 years ago I gave both companies identical specs for my 'burb project. My ALCAN spring quote came back at $580 for front springs and $610 for rear springs. ORD wants $720 for front and $795 (I think it was $695 for fronts at that time, for a strict apples-to-apples comparison). So it's $325 difference if you buy all 4 springs. Or a 30% markup. Is it worth it? I don't know, I wound up buying EZ rides instead.

ALCAN spec'd out 9 leaves for the front, while ORD spec'd out 11 leaves. So the ORD spring may have been more capable. Both companies offered what they thought was a perfect custom fit for my vehicle. But they disagreed on what that perfect fit was, and how much it was worth.

 

[Stephen]

We definitely spec the springs just for your situation. I'm pretty familiar with that process since I'm the one that does it!
We can't go over 4" of lift with just the spring since the arch gets so deep you can't install the spring without pre-loading it so at the 6" mark we go to a flip plus a spring. Performance wise (the reading above is a good idea) the 4" will work better because of the tension shackle but the 6" is not terrible at all.

And a driveshaft note: typically a CV is a good idea for a K5 rear shaft and the flip tends to point the pinion right at the driveshaft so it works out really nice. With a tension shackle you'll likely have to cut and rotate to make it just right for the CV.

Our fronts used to be $680 for the pair. Recent steel prices fixed that for us.