To make a long story short: A few years ago, long time wheeler dude (who I still consider a friend) had two nice Jeeps with 33's, dual lockers, etc. In 2001 when I started wheeling with my club, this guy could do everything on the trails. Times change. In 2003, 6.2 Blazer and I both went to 38's with our fullsize rigs...his Blazer, my Ford. There was also a regular member (at the time) with 38's on a Toyota. The Jeeps on 33's could no longer run everything on the trails. The "shift" in the club was highlighted at Wellsville on Easter weekend in 2004. 6.2 Blazer and I both made it up a nasty waterfall that many other bling Jeeps could not. In fact all of the Jeeps could not. My friend with the Jeeps does not have bling stuff, but it works...just want to make it clear that I'm not calling a "bling Jeep guy." Anyway, Jeep guy hammers his Jeep on the waterfall and in one shot broke the following parts: front locker, front axle(s), carrier, rear axle, and the rear tire folded over (like when a ball joint pops on the front of a car/truck). Jeep guy is a very good mechanic and had his Jeep mobile in a very short amount of time...he is far better at building/fixing stuff than I am, and basically 99% of the general population for that matter. He knows pretty much every trail in Ohio, and he often leads our group around on club rides. Over the past few years, when he is leading, he nearly always picks out the tightest trails, narrow dumb shiat off-camber shelf trails with huge drop off on the sides, etc. (Kinda ironic though that he doesn't like to go on rough trails/obstacles that may break his Jeep). Several people in the club have griped about it, including myself. On at least one occasion (a few months back) at our "driver meeting" before the ride started, I specifically mentioned that I had no interest in running a trail as mentioned above that leads to a good challenging rocky climb up a ravine. There was a much simpler way to get there. To me, the obstacle was the rocky climb up a ravine, not some off camber crap that could quite possibly kill you if you slid off of it. I had ran that trail before, and made it through the area, but had no interest in trying it again. So what does Jeep dude do? First trail of the day: The off camber crap mentioned above. I was pretty hot about the entire situation. However, I gritted my teeth and drove through the place that the hillside is washing way, high above a ravine. When I (and the rest of us) made it through the area, several people commented about it. I asked Jeep guy why he went that way to get to the obstacle when I'd specifically mentioned avoiding it. He laughed & said that he didn't think that was the trail I was talking about. BullSheat. I told the guy who was riding with me and several others in our group at the time, "OK, I followed you through that...see if you can follow me up the "Ugly Trail" as it's called. I also said, "If he breaks his rig on this next trail, I'm not going to have any sympathy whatsoever." He went first & broke one front axle & tweaked another one. When it was my turn, I made it to the top with a smirk on my face, but I said absolutely nothing to Jeep dude about him breaking...out of respect. Last weekend, similar stuff went down. The following is a copy/paste from what I posted last night in the members section of our club forum: I'm finished with following people in tiny vehicles down cow-paths that offer no challenge, other than rolling over the side of a hill to one's demise. I've noticed on several occasions within the past year that when a "safe" option to get to a difficult obstacle/trail or a "you may roll down a cliff" option is available, myself and those who are following me have been taken on the "risky" path. I’ve mentioned my dislike for this in the past, in a quiet manner...out of respect for "Senior" club members. A) I like to wheel difficult trails. B) I do not have a roll-cage. C) Even if I did have a roll cage, I'd rather not roll down a cliff. D) If someone wants to call me chicken sheet, go right ahead. E) Passive/Aggressive behavior gets old...purposefully leading someone on something they do not want to do, then smiling about it and making BS excuses for why it happened gets old, and people don't buy the same old line of BS after it happens a few times. F) If you can't be a "big dog" in the club anymore, and don't want to modify your vehicle anymore, that's cool. G) If you aren't willing to deal with element F, that's fine too...just realize that you've angered several people in the last few months...and people are getting tired of it. H) What really did it for me was this: On Saturday, a few members of our club needed to get back to the campsite as soon as was practically possible. We had two options: Follow the guy I've wheeled with for 5 years, or follow the two guys I'd met on the trail a few hours ago...who were going to run another entire trail before heading back to the campground. I, of course followed the guy that I view as a friend, and made it clear that we wanted the "easiest/fastest" way back to the campground. They (stranger guys who observed to be good wheeler dudes) ran their trail, and arrived back at camp well before we did. The attitude appears to be (whether admitted or not): 1. "I can't drive my stuff up the trails that you guys can." 2. "To compensate for the above, I'll have you drive down a bunch of stupid-tight trails or along a shelf trail that my narrow vehicle fits on, but yours is hanging over the edge." It's pretty damn sad when people would rather follow two strangers on a trail vs. a guy they've wheeled with for 5 years. After Saturday, this needs said. Take it how you wish. Bottom Line: I may be a prick, but I would not/will not/won't ever take people on trails that they may roll off a cliff to their demise/purposefully put them in a situation that they don’t like...if they have specifically told me they don't want to run that trail, or have made it clear that they don't want to run off-camber stuff on a hillside. I don't like the position that I and other club members have been put in on multiple occasions in recent months. This is something that I've thought about/been angry with on & off for at least a year. After biting my tongue for a year, I've had enough. Next month, I'll lead at Wellsville... Roy Anyone on here dealt with similar BS?