TBI swap nightmare

[Fierospeeder]

Get off your high horse. You have no clue. Wait, let me rephrase that. You have a clue, but thats it. Anyone that says they will run a carb on their vehicles by personal preference has little basis to comment on fuel injection, because obviously they aren't interested or endeared to it. If it weren't for your condescending attitude, correcting you wouldn't be such a big deal, as long as eventually you start posting correct info.

just you reading stuff on the internet and saying "i hear this is how it works" LOL
i posted correct info about catalytic converters. But you know your just a shadetree mechanic and found it shocking you were wrong. boohoo cry baby
talk about small penis

Anyone here can download winALDL, and get ALL the data that the GM scanner gets. Oh yeah, it's FREE. Make a $10 cable, a laptop or long cord for desktop PC, done. -$990

So winaldl is going to work with OBDI OBDII air bags and ABS systems?

Most don't care to see how the sensor operates, just whether it works right or not. winALDL -$1000

most repair shops care how a sensor operates.

Umm, carb setups use evap. -$900

carbs wont set a MIL light for evap failure

Uh, can't you use an exhaust gas analyzer on a carb setup? $-1000

you can, but a vacuum gauge is enough

I've never looked one up, I guarantee a fuel pressure tester doesn't run $200, and I'm so sure, I'm not even going to bother wasting my time to prove you wrong. Heck, you can even get an inline adapter for TBI AND a tester for less than that. Let's say -$100

go to snapon and look up how much a fuel injection pressure tester costs.
how many different cars enter a repair shop and require different fuel fittings?

Ok, from what I can see, it's a multimeter that checks a variety of plugs, or something along those lines that my GM service manual doesn't call for to diagnose EFI problems? In any case, a multimeter easily checks wires for continuity, and winALDL tells you what the sensor readings are. -$300

So does a scantool that costs 1000, but a labscope still is needed. scantools and multimeters dont provide real time info.

How many do you want?? The vehicle already has two independent temp sensors, and winALDL lets you see what the CTS says engine temp is. Of course, this is academic, because last I checked, carbureted liquid cooled vehicles use coolant that heats up as well. -$100.

did i say you need a temp sensor for checking the coolant temperature?
shows how much you know about diagnosing an emissions failure

I'm by no means an electrical expert, but I pay attention. Lets see. We can do a leakdown test of the fuel rail to see if an injector is leaking, with your fuel pressure tester. We can also pull the fuel rail (or injector pod, etc) and prime the engine and see if it leaks. You can ohm the injectors. winALDL I believe shows the injector pulse width as well, although for accuracy, you would need something on the injector itself as the engine was running. I can replace all 8 of my injectors for $220, if it fails either test above, it/they will get replaced. If it's present at idle, unplugging the injector will also help prove where the fault lies. I'm not sure what you'd ACTUALLY use to authoritatively test an injector on a bench if you wanted to go that far.

you must be a cheap ass to buy crummy injectors

And the customer wants to hear "i dont have the necessary tools, but i will replace pricey injectors for you"

and because you dont know anything, you dont need to remove injectors to test them. I didn't list all EFI tools.

I know your not into electronics. Pulling an injector must be a safe thing to do while the car is running. LOL what a moron

winALDL. And again, you are incorrect. TPS can be measured with a multimeter, it's a voltage reading to the ECM, and it's just a rheostat. Most multimeters (mine does, and its cheap) have an ohm setting that will work on the injectors.

multimeter isn't going to show a short that a TPS sensor has. Goodluck finding that with one.

Same goes with injectors. And a multimeter wont tell you what type of drive the ecm has either. Or if it has a momentary spike.

Theres one thing you forgot which is really indicative of you so far. A service manual set. Bought mine off of ebay for about $25. Let's say $50 because I'm generous, even if a service manual set covers carb issues and it can be used for everything else on the vehicle. So we end up with $60 more in diagnosis costs over a carb.

repair shops use alldata and mitchell on demand. That is more then 1000 dollars. How is one service manual going to fix every car?

Nowhere in the original posters question did I see him ask whether he should go carb or not. *You* felt the need to bring that into the mix, (or agree with others that did) apparently so that you could make a bunch of incorrect statements. The guy is running TBI, get over it. If you want to help, help. If you want to slide in anti-efi comments wherever possible, think twice about posting to EFI threads.

and just like in the other thread, the poster didn't want to hear about your 2nd hand experience of catalytic converters. "i base all my opinions on hear say and internet knowledge" said dyeager

and if you had any college education, you would have some understanding where i mention pros and cons of both systems. I didn't bash EFI. DUH


what a loser that got put down in another thread.

 

[dyeager535]

First off, I'm not going to dignify your ridiculous attempts to insult me or anyone on this board with a response. Everyone that reads your posts will begin to realize what kind of person you are, thats enough for me. I find it funny that you as the one that is "right" by your own recognition, is the one that stoops to name calling and insults. As to your misinformation, keep posting it, I'll do my best to prove you wrong every time.

just you reading stuff on the internet and saying "i hear this is how it works" LOL

So lets see. Reading how things work (whether on internet or books) isn't how you learn? You learn everything by trial and error, like tolerances when building an engine, or putting together a transmission? You know by tearing down an O2 sensor how it works?

So winaldl is going to work with OBDI OBDII air bags and ABS systems?

Are you actually asking a question, or do you know the answer. FYI (and you are going to hear this a bunch in this post I suspect) we aren't dealing with OBD2 or airbags. What system is the poster using? Thats right, we had this discussion about comprehension before didn't we?

most repair shops care how a sensor operates.

So a repair shop cares what mV 13.5:1 is on a narrowband O2 sensor, or do they care about whether or not a $50 part switches from rich to lean to follow the fueling pattern of the engine? Or, as in most cases, will it just get replaced? Replacing good parts is wasteful, I agree, guaranteed 95% of all shops will just replace it, and not bother testing it. Don't know about you, but at $70+ an hour, I think I'd rather pay someone to replace it in 5 minutes than sit around and diagnose a $50 piece for a couple of hours.

carbs wont set a MIL light for evap failure

So tell us, how does GM TBI trigger a check engine light for Evap? How does the TBI system know there is a failure in the Evap system? Since you don't learn by reading, I'm assuming your answer will be off the top of your head.

you can, but a vacuum gauge is enough

"Close enough" huh? Glad you can live with that, sounds like you do on a daily basis. The emissions testing facilities are just wasting time and money with all those emissions testing machines they have, they should just be using a vacuum port on the carb?

go to snapon and look up how much a fuel injection pressure tester costs.
how many different cars enter a repair shop and require different fuel fittings?

The category is "GM TBI" and this is "Colorado K5".

So does a scantool that costs 1000, but a labscope still is needed. scantools and multimeters dont provide real time info.

YOU said " break out box 300 dollars" not labscope. How is a continuity test not "real time"? How is data that is transferred at 160 or 8192 baud, and captured for review, any less valid than "real time" data? What exactly IS "real time" if winALDL displaying the engine running isn't?

did i say you need a temp sensor for checking the coolant temperature?
shows how much you know about diagnosing an emissions failure

Re-reading your post, no, you didn't. As a matter of fact, you didn't bother clarifying at all. So you have already diagnosed the original poster with an emissions failure? I don't see why you'd be bring up a "temp sensor" (what kind was it again?) for emissions failure if you didn't already think that was his problem. Or are you TRYING to prove how much real world experience you have, and how little I presumably have?

As a matter of fact, can you explain to me how my carbed 1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon (or any carbed emissions control vehicle) has any less of a requirement for this "temp sensor" to diagnose emissions failure than the posters 1992 TBI setup? I apparently don't understand the different emissions components that GM apparently added to the 1992 setup over mine, which wouldn't require this "temp sensor" for expert diagnosis.

you must be a cheap ass to buy crummy injectors

Well since you lack the need to read, you wouldn't know that is the price for factory parts that are produced, installed and sold for a mass produced automobile by one of the US big three, would you? Now you do. Go tell them their factory warranteed engine components are crummy.

And the customer wants to hear "i dont have the necessary tools, but i will replace pricey injectors for you"

Lets see. Work on own vehicle. $200 for new injectors when mine ohm out bad, or pay $1000 for tool to test injectors which will undoubtedly find I have bad injectors. Hmm, tough choice there.

and because you dont know anything, you dont need to remove injectors to test them. I didn't list all EFI tools.

Dang, and here I thought all the information I was posting was something I knew. Was there somewhere that I made a blanket statement saying injectors needed to be removed to test? Let me re-read my post....nope, I never said that.

I know your not into electronics. Pulling an injector must be a safe thing to do while the car is running. LOL what a moron

Once again, did I say I wasn't into electronics,? Did I say ANYTHING about starting a vehicle with the injectors pulled? Damn, do I need to go back to the catalytic converter post and explain everything verbatim to you there as well? Because you certainly have a problem with reading comprehension, and thats not meant to be an insult, it's the truth. If you care to read before posting again, please do us a favor and take the time to re-read my posts and let the info sink in before responding.

multimeter isn't going to show a short that a TPS sensor has. Goodluck finding that with one.

A "short" in a TPS huh? Please explain to me how either watching the voltmeter or winALDL display as the throttle position sensor lever is worked slowly through its travel, won't reveal a problem with a TPS. Since you can't answer that anyways, because you can test it that way, I'll save you the trouble. Why are there minimum and maximum TPS *voltages* listed in the service manual (read) if thats not how you test it?

Same goes with injectors. And a multimeter wont tell you what type of drive the ecm has either. Or if it has a momentary spike.

No kidding? There are some things you can't do with a multimeter? Come on, theres a reason scantools/winALDL exist. What kind of drive the ecm has? What the hell are you talking about? You mean injector drivers? Do you mean injector pulse width? What??

repair shops use alldata and mitchell on demand. That is more then 1000 dollars. How is one service manual going to fix every car?

For all that can stomach this much of this thread, and are still following along, WE ARE DEALING WITH A 1992 GM TBI SYSTEM INSTALLED IN A 1986 BLAZER. We are not talking about shops, we are not talking about customers, we are talking about one guy trying to fix his vehicle. YOU are trying to get in a pissing match about how much more expensive you perceive EFI diagnosis to be than carbed. Your blanket statements do nothing but make it impossible to defend the "information" you post.

and if you had any college education, you would have some understanding where i mention pros and cons of both systems. I didn't bash EFI

Lets review your posts, shall we? (BTW, who says I don't have a college education?) Not edited, not taken out of context, "full sentences" as written by you:

Carb all the way. Especially the one that only needed one vacuum line to run.

I will always be running carb on a majority of my vehicles.

Fuel injection is great for new vehicles or a new engine, but it starts getting to be a pain on older vehicles or when you choose to hot rod the motor and make major changes. It is great for turbo cars because of the knock sensor and its ability to compensate to changes.

Nowhere that I see does the poster mention anything about hot rodding the engine or making major changes. If 1992 is "older" to you, what is new? 5 minutes ago? What is his truck being a 1986? I like how the pros are "good for new cars or on a new engine" and "great for turbo". So either a new setup in a new vehicle, or an old setup on a new engine are both appropriate for EFI, and thats it? Oh wait, can't forget turbo setups.

what a loser that got put down in another thread.

Bringing up another (old by now) thread where I chose to let you wallow in your own ignorance and incomprehension is pretty ridiculous. I realized at that point (as I already have in this thread) that no matter what you are presented with for information, if it disagrees with you, you dismiss it. Excuse me if I refuse to let you think you know it all from now on. I won't stand by and let you post mis-information, and slander proven fuel delivery systems because of your lack of understanding. I'm not defending myself here, I'm hoping that other people will realize that what you have posted is far from reality. Whether conciously or not, in this case you are obviously trying to foist carbs upon the people reading, and that is not right.

It's really sad that you can't have a positive discussion where you and everyone else might actually learn something, instead of resorting to name calling, insults, and an attitude of "I'm always right, regardless of what information I'm presented with". You WILL eventually learn that blanket statements do everyone a disservice.

I don't believe you posted a single fact that disproves anything I presented here, and thats a waste of everyones time. If I'm wrong, prove it, I'll learn something, and so might others. You have given me no reason to believe that I have underestimated you experience or intelligence up to this point though.

 

[Fierospeeder]

First off, I'm not going to dignify your ridiculous attempts to insult me or anyone on this board with a response. Everyone that reads your posts will begin to realize what kind of person you are, thats enough for me. I find it funny that you as the one that is "right" by your own recognition, is the one that stoops to name calling and insults. As to your misinformation, keep posting it, I'll do my best to prove you wrong every time.

I dont see myself insulting anyone "else" on here. Please quote me where i do.
So because i have been trained in GM EFI systems and general EFI systems, my knowledge is "misinformed"? But good luck in trying to prove me wrong when all you are is a backyard mechanic with a highschool diploma.

So lets see. Reading how things work (whether on internet or books) isn't how you learn? You learn everything by trial and error, like tolerances when building an engine, or putting together a transmission? You know by tearing down an O2 sensor how it works?

That is how normal people learn, but not in your case. The way to learn is to tear an engine apart 50 times and putting it back together? Same with a transmission? You must learn the stupid way. Your going to drop a transmission and rebuild it because learning is fun? No, i dont know how an 02 sensor works by tearing it apart. No one would ever realize how an o2 sensor works besides an engineer and someone who has a chemistry degree.

Are you actually asking a question, or do you know the answer. FYI (and you are going to hear this a bunch in this post I suspect) we aren't dealing with OBD2 or airbags. What system is the poster using? Thats right, we had this discussion about comprehension before didn't we?

Yes, I am asking a question. Will your laptop diagnose OBDII systems and other OBDI systems? And, Yes, we are dealing with OBD2. What i have been discussing is the cost of EFI tools compared to Carb tools. What happened to your reading comprehension. One of the systems of EFI is OBDII. But that must be a new idea to you. It is on the internet, go learn away.

Lets look at my quote where i start to compare the two.

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Illinois
Posts: 110


to diagnose a carb, you only need 200 dollars worth of tools and with fuel injection you start getting into thousands.

So a repair shop cares what mV 13.5:1 is on a narrowband O2 sensor, or do they care about whether or not a $50 part switches from rich to lean to follow the fueling pattern of the engine? Or, as in most cases, will it just get replaced? Replacing good parts is wasteful, I agree, guaranteed 95% of all shops will just replace it, and not bother testing it. Don't know about you, but at $70+ an hour, I think I'd rather pay someone to replace it in 5 minutes than sit around and diagnose a $50 piece for a couple of hours.

A trained and qualified technician cares what mV the o2 sensor is producing on a labscope. That what professionals call "diagnosis"
So you rather pay 1000 dollars worth of parts instead of paying 2 hours worth of diagnostic time and a 120 dollar map sensor(ex)? Must have been a lot of inbreeding in your family.
And why would it take couple of hours to test an oxygen sensor? With a labscope, i can do it within 5 minutes. So how do you get couple of hours now? Do you even know how to test an oxygen sensor. Wait, ill let you go on the internet and look it up. So you can look smarter next time replying after doing some research because your not a trained mechanic.

So tell us, how does GM TBI trigger a check engine light for Evap? How does the TBI system know there is a failure in the Evap system? Since you don't learn by reading, I'm assuming your answer will be off the top of your head.

look the answer up. I wont let you leach off my own education that i paid for and got through experience.
But i will give you a hint, theres a sensor.

"Close enough" huh? Glad you can live with that, sounds like you do on a daily basis. The emissions testing facilities are just wasting time and money with all those emissions testing machines they have, they should just be using a vacuum port on the carb?

i fix cars on a daily basis? That would mean i have more experience then someone that reads stuff on the internet and learns from experience of others that say "i installed an aftermarket cat and it doesn't work right"

But how would a vacuum port be useful on OBDI and OBDII vehicles? And emission places are testing more then for a carb running too rich. 5 gas analyzers are a waste with OBDII systems, maybe that why they dont use them on that system.

The category is "GM TBI" and this is "Colorado K5".

see above about my mention of discussion EFI vs carb tools.
Really, this is colorado k5? people shouldn't be talking in the off topic sections. What? This is the GM TBI category? Looks like your way off topic by flaming me for your lack of knowledge in the automotive field.

YOU said " break out box 300 dollars" not labscope. How is a continuity test not "real time"? How is data that is transferred at 160 or 8192 baud, and captured for review, any less valid than "real time" data? What exactly IS "real time" if winALDL displaying the engine running isn't?

Looks to me i said labscope, even look on the previous page
"labscope more then 1000 bucks You cant diagnose a majority of sensors with a multimeter"
pst, reading comprehension
a human brain cant perceive information that quick and a multimeter and scantool do not display "all" information. Let me know if you can comprehend the miliseconds on a stop watch. Someone who is an electrical eng. rely on oscilliscopes for their work, not multimeters.

Re-reading your post, no, you didn't. As a matter of fact, you didn't bother clarifying at all. So you have already diagnosed the original poster with an emissions failure? I don't see why you'd be bring up a "temp sensor" (what kind was it again?) for emissions failure if you didn't already think that was his problem. Or are you TRYING to prove how much real world experience you have, and how little I presumably have?

what happened to your great reading comprehension. You had to reread my post. Sad sad sad.
In my tools for EFI systems, i state a tool to read temperature. So now where are you getting "temp sensor" ?
We already know you have no real world experience. Remember, you hear about peoples experiences of CAT installations. LOL

As a matter of fact, can you explain to me how my carbed 1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon (or any carbed emissions control vehicle) has any less of a requirement for this "temp sensor" to diagnose emissions failure than the posters 1992 TBI setup? I apparently don't understand the different emissions components that GM apparently added to the 1992 setup over mine, which wouldn't require this "temp sensor" for expert diagnosis.

where are you getting this temp sensor? This is the 2nd time.
Please, quote me where i state anything about a temp sensor. Talk about making stuff up.

Well since you lack the need to read, you wouldn't know that is the price for factory parts that are produced, installed and sold for a mass produced automobile by one of the US big three, would you? Now you do. Go tell them their factory warranteed engine components are crummy.

huh?
Did you get confused about me pointing out the fact that you buy the cheapest aftermarket parts to replace OEM injectors?

Lets see. Work on own vehicle. $200 for new injectors when mine ohm out bad, or pay $1000 for tool to test injectors which will undoubtedly find I have bad injectors. Hmm, tough choice there.

what tool costs 1000 bucks that only test injectors?

Dang, and here I thought all the information I was posting was something I knew. Was there somewhere that I made a blanket statement saying injectors needed to be removed to test? Let me re-read my post....nope, I never said that.

We can also pull the fuel rail (or injector pod, etc) and prime the engine and see if it leaks

look, you say it right here. You cant even remember what you typed. ROFL

Once again, did I say I wasn't into electronics,? Did I say ANYTHING about starting a vehicle with the injectors pulled? Damn, do I need to go back to the catalytic converter post and explain everything verbatim to you there as well? Because you certainly have a problem with reading comprehension, and thats not meant to be an insult, it's the truth. If you care to read before posting again, please do us a favor and take the time to re-read my posts and let the info sink in before responding.

If it's present at idle, unplugging the injector will also help prove where the fault lies.

another quote from your mouth. Must be from my poor reading comprehension.
I do know you said your not in electronics. That is why you lack any sense working on an electronic system on a vehicle.
Nope, stop right there. No more discussion of cats. Because i dont need you quoting other peoples experiences of installing aftermarket CATs. ROFL

A "short" in a TPS huh? Please explain to me how either watching the voltmeter or winALDL display as the throttle position sensor lever is worked slowly through its travel, won't reveal a problem with a TPS. Since you can't answer that anyways, because you can test it that way, I'll save you the trouble. Why are there minimum and maximum TPS *voltages* listed in the service manual (read) if thats not how you test it?

Remember i stated, scantools and multimeters dont have real time display.
Min and Max voltage values are just 1 way to test a sensor. But isn't your first point of this paragraph talking about finding a short. Did you forget what you typed 2 sentences ago? And your not in electronics, so you lack the education of shorts in resistors.

No kidding? There are some things you can't do with a multimeter? Come on, theres a reason scantools/winALDL exist. What kind of drive the ecm has? What the hell are you talking about? You mean injector drivers? Do you mean injector pulse width? What??

exactly, what. go look it up on the internet, like you always do.
Pst, what a pussy way to get out of a argument. What happened to your statement that multimeters can be used to fix everything on EFI?
Or the statement about "i dont care how a sensor operates" hypocrite

For all that can stomach this much of this thread, and are still following along, WE ARE DEALING WITH A 1992 GM TBI SYSTEM INSTALLED IN A 1986 BLAZER. We are not talking about shops, we are not talking about customers, we are talking about one guy trying to fix his vehicle. YOU are trying to get in a pissing match about how much more expensive you perceive EFI diagnosis to be than carbed. Your blanket statements do nothing but make it impossible to defend the "information" you post.

this is the 2nd time your using that old argument trying to prove that you dont have a small penis.
My topic is about EFI tools vs Carb tools. But you keep on going on and on off topic if this is truly about TBI systems and not your low self esteem.

Lets review your posts, shall we? (BTW, who says I don't have a college education?) Not edited, not taken out of context, "full sentences" as written by you:

Your lack of knowledge proves you dont have a college education.

We can also pull the fuel rail (or injector pod, etc) and prime the engine and see if it leaks.

my sentences, pst. Look, you got me over at your house checking the fuel rail.

Nowhere that I see does the poster mention anything about hot rodding the engine or making major changes. If 1992 is "older" to you, what is new? 5 minutes ago? What is his truck being a 1986? I like how the pros are "good for new cars or on a new engine" and "great for turbo". So either a new setup in a new vehicle, or an old setup on a new engine are both appropriate for EFI, and thats it? Oh wait, can't forget turbo setups.

He didn't. DUH. Those are examples of the pros and cons of EFI and Carb systems.

Bringing up another (old by now) thread where I chose to let you wallow in your own ignorance and incomprehension is pretty ridiculous. I realized at that point (as I already have in this thread) that no matter what you are presented with for information, if it disagrees with you, you dismiss it. Excuse me if I refuse to let you think you know it all from now on. I won't stand by and let you post mis-information, and slander proven fuel delivery systems because of your lack of understanding. I'm not defending myself here, I'm hoping that other people will realize that what you have posted is far from reality. Whether conciously or not, in this case you are obviously trying to foist carbs upon the people reading, and that is not right.

blah blah, self esteem issues Pst, your not defending yourself. What are you doing then?

It's really sad that you can't have a positive discussion where you and everyone else might actually learn something, instead of resorting to name calling, insults, and an attitude of "I'm always right, regardless of what information I'm presented with". You WILL eventually learn that blanket statements do everyone a disservice.

People did learn something about the pros and cons of EFI and carb systems. Also the cost of diagnostic tools. And a bonus, they learned you have no clue about how to diagnose cars. I bet they would all be willing for you to work on their car. "oh oh deyeager, just change all the sensors, maybe that will fix the check engine light"

I don't believe you posted a single fact that disproves anything I presented here, and thats a waste of everyones time. If I'm wrong, prove it, I'll learn something, and so might others. You have given me no reason to believe that I have underestimated you experience or intelligence up to this point though.

People learned here today on the date of March 8, 2005, that you, dyeager, diagnose cars by replacing sensors instead of doing it the right way.

Oh let me get a few quotes of you being wrong or misinformed I had a good laugh at you not knowing what is a break out box. ROFL

Ok, from what I can see, it's a multimeter that checks a variety of plugs, or something along those lines that my GM service manual doesn't call for to diagnose EFI problems? In any case, a multimeter easily checks wires for continuity, and winALDL tells you what the sensor readings are. -$300

priceless

did they forgot to mention: screwdrivers, sockets, wrenches, ratchets etc...
in the gm service manual too?
LOL, it's a multimeter you need a better search engine

Lets look at your experience with Cats. another good one. You know more then me. ROFL

You also hear people having problems sometimes with aftermarket converters after relatively short periods of time (either coming apart or smelling tremendously) which COULD be related to improper placement. Improper tune is just as likely a cause though. Lots of variables, hard to prove one way or another.

LOL improper placement causing smell. ROFL OMG wiping tears away, that is so funny. Do you hear people say you smell? LOL
LOL your mechanic experience "you also hear people" must not be first hand


are you going to tell me all those tools dont cost what they do. Or change the point of my arguement because you're a loser? My topic "EFI tools" not shadetree dyeager tools. Are you going to snap on's website and inform me that those fuel pressure set doesn't cost what they do. I know they dont, they prob cost more then what i mentioned.

Or tell me that you can use a multimeter on all sensors. Even, sensors that use frequency as output to the ECM. Or how winaldl will provide enough output to help determine the operation of a sensor? Dyeager doing diagnostics "wow, the voltage of this 02 sensor is moving around on my laptop, that must mean it is working properly"


I cant wait for your next post. What is it gonna be. You quoting every word i say and saying, a multimeter can fix it? ROFL

 

[gravdigr]

Wow, sounds like efi pissed in someones cornflakes and they're mad.

Couple questions

WTF do airbags and ABS have to do with TBI?

How are other people running TBI without all this wonderful equipment?

Since when is a single person installing TBI considered a repair shop and is insterested in how a sensor is working?

With these questions I'm trying to point out that running a commercial repair shop is a little different than working on your own vehicle. Many of those items would be nice to have for diagnosis of a TBI sysem, just like a lift would be nice for installing tires. But a lift is not necessary to change tires, it can be done with a fairly inexpensive floorjack. And TBI diagnosis can be done with some relatively inexpensive common tools and a free computer program. You are taking about ALL EFI systems. As the poster said this is coloradoK5, K5 mind you. And as such 99% of the folks here working on their own rigs and installing EFI are using TBI, which last time I checked was used pre 1996, which is when OBDII came into use. I have no doubt a lot of your data is accurate, it just doesn't apply here.

BTW I could probably go to snap on's website and find a screwdriver that they want $1,000 for

 

[Fierospeeder]

WTF do airbags and ABS have to do with TBI?
How are other people running TBI without all this wonderful equipment?
Since when is a single person installing TBI considered a repair shop and is insterested in how a sensor is working?
BTW I could probably go to snap on's website and find a screwdriver that they want $1,000 for

what if you buy a new pickup truck, then you need an abs scantool. Might as well buy a decent scantool. Scantool pays itself off, if you can use it and not bring your vehicle to a shop.

A lot of do it yourselfers dont need scantools because they can go to autozone and get codes read for free. But that is with OBDII

But the abs topic is arguing to dyeager that winaldl cant do everything.

There are people who dont know where to put oil in their vehicle dealing fine without this equipment.


Those tools can be bought by do it yourselfers but at cheaper costs. Any one who works on cars needs a scantool. Even dyeager , needs winaldl.
First tool that you need working on efi is a multimeter to do the basics.

 

[dyeager535]

I dont see myself insulting anyone "else" on here. Please quote me where i do.

What backyard repairshop are you working out of?

I'm not going to waste my time or effort looking for any more insults towards others...you'd think that as the poster, you'd remember what you had written and I wouldn't need to hold your hand through all this, and remind you of the things you say. Grain of truth in entire thread: I post facts and specifics, you insult. I could spend plenty of time responding to your post, but what would be the point? You'd still fail to comprehend the post as you have all the other ones I've made, you would ignore any facts, you would stray even further off topic, and to top it off with a cherry, you'd only reply to insult my manhood or whatever makes you giggle.

So because i have been trained in GM EFI systems and general EFI systems, my knowledge is "misinformed"? But good luck in trying to prove me wrong when all you are is a backyard mechanic with a highschool diploma.

For a "trained" GM/EFI person, you sure can't use what you learned. I can tell you right now that whatever "education" you've received, has been a complete and utter waste. I can't imagine you could hack it even at a corner garage, but if you somehow managed to weasel your way into the tire bay at Pep Boys, please let me know which one so you never touch even my vehicles tires.

That is how normal people learn, but not in your case.

Are you one of those escaped ravenous monkeys? Seriously? YOU are the one that chastised me for reading and using that knowledge in posts. Now it's ok? Which is it? I heard those monkeys attacked a guys groin, and you seem to have a passion for male genitalia...

I was going to spend time quoting, but your post is just mindless drivel that anyone reading can see for themselves. No need for me to point out the idiocy of your post.

Now, if you can actually say how you use these tools to test all these components, what to look for, and why those that don't have access to $5000 worth of test equipment are unable to work on their vehicles, I'm all ears.

Your logic is nonexistent, your comprehension of diagnosis (of everything actually) is severely lacking, and your posting has no relevance to anything the original poster needed help with.

Once again, your post contains no information (useful to anyone on this planet) to help someone make an informed decision, or sway anyones opinion, or even attempt to prove how smart you are. You didn't answer anything technical, you can't keep it related to his issue, and you took a few chances to *SAY* how smart you are.

You did nothing to PROVE your technical prowess. You did however attempt to insult me, but thats ok, your lack of technical knowledge whatsoever is glaringly obvious. Since when is posting the names of tools, or prices, something that a trained monkey can't do? You don't even need to train a monkey to hurl insults. (or feces)

As far as I can tell, you know the names of components and tools, and your capabilites end there. In any of your posts, have you actually shared with anyone how to do something? I think you said remove a gas cap in one post, and tap the EGR valve with a mallet in another. I'm not sure if that counts as how to do something. Was that taught in your EFI schooling? Or did you only make it to the table of contents in the textbook?

I'm assuming that textbook came from the highschool you are attending. Say hi to your teacher for me.

 

[Fierospeeder]

Now, if you can actually say how you use these tools to test all these components, what to look for, and why those that don't have access to $5000 worth of test equipment are unable to work on their vehicles, I'm all ears.

Like i have stated before. You can pay for your own education. Or are you a cheap ass?
Even, when i stated what to look for with injectors or TPS sensor. You were all ignorant to the fact. "oh, but it doesn't say that in my service manual" then you cried like a baby girl.

And what is up with the 10 paragraphs of you repeating yourself. I dont see you responding to the fact that these tools are needed. Always going off topic. Cant hold an argument?

As far as I can tell, you know the names of components and tools, and your capabilites end there. In any of your posts, have you actually shared with anyone how to do something? I think you said remove a gas cap in one post, and tap the EGR valve with a mallet in another. I'm not sure if that counts as how to do something. Was that taught in your EFI schooling? Or did you only make it to the table of contents in the textbook?

Tapping a EGR valve and removing a gas cap are easy procedures for the home mechanic. Remember, you stated no one needs 1000s dollars worth of equipment or did you forget?

I know my advice has helped people diagnose their issues. I can provide a link to one of them.

What is your diagnosis for the one guy who cant start is vehicle. "are your lights dim" like that is going to start his vehicle. ROFL Are the lights connected to the EFI system?



So when are you going to answer my question? Or are you pussying out like you have for the last few pages? Do you have any trained experience in diagnosing EFI systems? Too ashamed to admit it? That converter thing is still funny.

Just because i am trained in EFI doesn't mean i do it for a living. I have my BS in another field.

 

[tRustyK5]

Wow, how did I miss this thread?

I'm gonna lock this one.

Dorian and Fierospeeder...you both have pm's.

Rene

 

[tRustyK5]

just you reading stuff on the internet and saying "i hear this is how it works" LOL
i posted correct info about catalytic converters. But you know your just a shadetree mechanic and found it shocking you were wrong. boohoo cry baby
talk about small penis


So winaldl is going to work with OBDI OBDII air bags and ABS systems?


most repair shops care how a sensor operates.


carbs wont set a MIL light for evap failure


you can, but a vacuum gauge is enough


go to snapon and look up how much a fuel injection pressure tester costs.
how many different cars enter a repair shop and require different fuel fittings?


So does a scantool that costs 1000, but a labscope still is needed. scantools and multimeters dont provide real time info.


did i say you need a temp sensor for checking the coolant temperature?
shows how much you know about diagnosing an emissions failure


you must be a cheap ass to buy crummy injectors

And the customer wants to hear "i dont have the necessary tools, but i will replace pricey injectors for you"

and because you dont know anything, you dont need to remove injectors to test them. I didn't list all EFI tools.

I know your not into electronics. Pulling an injector must be a safe thing to do while the car is running. LOL what a moron

multimeter isn't going to show a short that a TPS sensor has. Goodluck finding that with one.

Same goes with injectors. And a multimeter wont tell you what type of drive the ecm has either. Or if it has a momentary spike.


repair shops use alldata and mitchell on demand. That is more then 1000 dollars. How is one service manual going to fix every car?



and just like in the other thread, the poster didn't want to hear about your 2nd hand experience of catalytic converters. "i base all my opinions on hear say and internet knowledge" said dyeager

and if you had any college education, you would have some understanding where i mention pros and cons of both systems. I didn't bash EFI. DUH


what a loser that got put down in another thread.

Fierospeeder,

Your email is hidden so I guess your warning will be public. We do not tolerate personal attacks and name calling etc here. If I or any of the other mods see it again from you you'll be banned for 3 days. After that it gets worse for you.

Feel free to post all you want, just mind your P's and Q's and we'll all get along fine.

Rene