Butch
1/2 ton status
Glad it helped, maybe Dana ought to give me a job. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
CK5
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Test for all you DW victims
- Thread starter Butch
- Start date
UNCLE CRACKER
1/2 ton status
Well got the 1/4 thick washers put in and took it for a spin, NO DEATHWOBBLE WOOHOO /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif. I can finaly drive my truck around town without getting shook out of it. I've had this problem for along time and to say the least it was very bad around 25-40 mph. I like the part where I just said, IT WAS BAD .
Thanks Butch, YOU THE MAN /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Thanks Butch, YOU THE MAN /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
BowtieBlazer
Diesel Powered
Butch now the method to fixing the madness is out, you forgot to add the key element to fixing this DW that all vehicles should be lightened (or added weight to depending on the application) by purchasing a 4x4 Iron new front bumper.... /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
correct me if I am wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
correct me if I am wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
ntaj*ep
1/2 ton status
Well this is good news, I figured it was something to do with the king pin preload.
Awsome that you all got it figured out. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Awsome that you all got it figured out. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Cool deal.
I have never had a D60 apart but it sounds sorta like the front axles of some of the rigs I work on.
Mack and some Volvos have adjustable king pins.
The Volvos you have to take apart and remove shims from the top bearing, and the Macks have a slot in the bottom cup that is held in place with a cotter pin and you turn it to the next hole to take up the slack.
When a driver complains about the DW you just snug them down again.
I have yet to replace that type of king pin, I have done shloads of the regular types but now I prolly jinxed myself and will get one tomorrow. LOL
I have never had a D60 apart but it sounds sorta like the front axles of some of the rigs I work on.
Mack and some Volvos have adjustable king pins.
The Volvos you have to take apart and remove shims from the top bearing, and the Macks have a slot in the bottom cup that is held in place with a cotter pin and you turn it to the next hole to take up the slack.
When a driver complains about the DW you just snug them down again.
I have yet to replace that type of king pin, I have done shloads of the regular types but now I prolly jinxed myself and will get one tomorrow. LOL
Butch
1/2 ton status
Your right Bowtie. Seems like now that we put TJ's front bumper on the truck drives even better /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
Butch,
I'm a little confused....using the spacer inside that spring cup doesn't seem like it would change the spring RATE....? My understanding is that a coil spring has a consistent "rate" throughout it's entire compression range, until it finally binds up of course!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I know when I rebuilt my 60, it came with new kingpin springs and they are tall enough that you need to secure the 4 bolts in a sort of cross-hatch pattern to slowly draw the retainer cup down onto the knuckle....it seems like that IS preload also....?
I'm trying to be a good student and understand this concept (especially since you say it works! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) But I don't understand how the stock preload is improved with the use of a spacer.... unless maybe the spring is tired and NOT preloading anymore.
I'm a little confused....using the spacer inside that spring cup doesn't seem like it would change the spring RATE....? My understanding is that a coil spring has a consistent "rate" throughout it's entire compression range, until it finally binds up of course!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I know when I rebuilt my 60, it came with new kingpin springs and they are tall enough that you need to secure the 4 bolts in a sort of cross-hatch pattern to slowly draw the retainer cup down onto the knuckle....it seems like that IS preload also....?
I'm trying to be a good student and understand this concept (especially since you say it works! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) But I don't understand how the stock preload is improved with the use of a spacer.... unless maybe the spring is tired and NOT preloading anymore.
The load on the spring increases as it is compressed. Until the coils finally hit and wont go any farther. A preload is just compressing the spring before the vehicle weight is applied.
The spring rate is constant but...
Load is the force applied to a spring that causes deflection. Load = Deflection X Rate
Rate (also known as load rate or spring rate) is a constant that expresses the change in load per inch of deflection. Rate = Load / Deflection
The spring rate is constant but...
Load is the force applied to a spring that causes deflection. Load = Deflection X Rate
Rate (also known as load rate or spring rate) is a constant that expresses the change in load per inch of deflection. Rate = Load / Deflection
Tim, I'm going to be trying this DW cure on monday night. I got my truck all done and was about to drive it home (30 miles away) from the shop it's been at for the last 7 weeks. The first bump i hit at over 25 mph and I thought I was gonna put it in the ditch!!! /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
The stabilizer is junk too so I'm sure that isn't helping any...I sure hope this cure works for me too. As it is it's undrivable over 25 MPH.
Rene
The stabilizer is junk too so I'm sure that isn't helping any...I sure hope this cure works for me too. As it is it's undrivable over 25 MPH.
Rene
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
OK, just to confirm. The king pin spring in question, is under the steering arm, correct? Remove the arm, and put the spacer/washers under and on top of the spring, then bolt it back together. Same on opposite side, just w/o steering arm?
Butch
1/2 ton status
I put all the spacers on top of the spring, but you need to wipe the grease out of the cap first so they will seat well.
K5thatShmobs
1/2 ton status
Wow, am I glad I have this site to refer to... today I drove my truck for the first time with the 60 up front and experienced the wobble myself. When it happened, the words "DEATH WOBBLE" came to mind, beacuse I have seen those two words strewn across these boards so many times. Sure enough, when I did a search, it was exactly what my problem was.
Im off to the hardware store to get some 1/2" washers!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Im off to the hardware store to get some 1/2" washers!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
yeild2me
1/2 ton status
Glad we could help!!! On your way, swing by Piggly Wiggly and pick up a 25 Dollar money order and send it to Steve!! That way you can be ORANGE and have access to even MORE AWESOME info in the Members only section /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif....Believe me....It will be the best 25 bucks you ever spend!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
Glad to hear your death wobble is gone,,,,that is some serious stuff!
Rob
/forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
Glad to hear your death wobble is gone,,,,that is some serious stuff!
Rob
tomseviltwin
1/2 ton status
[ QUOTE ]
Piggly Wiggly
[/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
You southern guys and your funny store names /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Piggly Wiggly
[/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
You southern guys and your funny store names /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
K5thatShmobs
1/2 ton status
Anyone ever consider just eliminating the springs in the kingpins altogether, and using a spacer all the way through? Yesterday I tried the washer trick. I used two washers on each side which spaced out the spring exacly a 1/4" like most people tried. The Death Wobble was still there, only different. Instead of a jelloey wobble, the wobble was now more jerky and much tighter. I guessed it was because of the increased tension on the springs, thus a greater spring rate, thus the greater "wobble rate". I kept thinking that its going to be hard to get these knuckles stable on the road with 39.5" Boggers...
I thought I would try adding another couple washers to each side, but I didnt have a means of getting the knuckle caps on with that much compression so that I could thread the nuts. I tried jimmy rigging a few ways, but none worked.
So, then I thought maybe eliminating the spring all together would work. I went out and got some big spacers that were roughly the same length as the distance from the top of the knuckle bushing to the top of the inside of the knuckle cap. I used a washer or two to get the distance perfect so that I could put the knuckle on and have about a 1/4" of space between the knuckle and the knuckle cap. (Is everyone still following me here?) I then threaded the cap nuts and torqued it on so that the cap was flush with the knuckle. I was thinking it should have been pretty flush. It didnt work, there was still a slight wobble, but it changed once again.
Thinking about it now, I think my problem was that I didnt seat the bushing flush down inside the knuckle. If I can use a jack under the hub and raise and lower the hub assembly until I can pound the bushing into its seat nice and flush, then Ill put the spacer back in, knowing that its applying pressure on a flush bushing. Im going to try that today and see what happens.
I think thats the key here... it seems in this thread people are more concentrated on addressing the problem at its root (the unstable spring loaded kingpins) rather than trying a slew of ways to just try and reduce feeling the effects of the root problem (i.e. steering stabilizers, crossover, new steering boxes, steering pumps, ect.) All these measures accomplish is trying to dampen the effect of the vibrations at the axle level being felt at the body level of the truck.
Im glad to see that the infamous Dana 60 "Death Wobble" looks as if its becoming less and less of mystery.
Oh, and just as a sidenote, those of you who say, "Yeah I have a 10 bolt in the front and I have the death wobble too.." No, you dont have the death wobble. You have unbalanced or unaligned tires, lose u-bolts, jacked up steering, or something else... The term "Death Wobble" ONLY applies to the Dana 60 and the vibrations associated with it's king pin knuckle design.
Have nice day all, Ill be posting again very soon.
I thought I would try adding another couple washers to each side, but I didnt have a means of getting the knuckle caps on with that much compression so that I could thread the nuts. I tried jimmy rigging a few ways, but none worked.
So, then I thought maybe eliminating the spring all together would work. I went out and got some big spacers that were roughly the same length as the distance from the top of the knuckle bushing to the top of the inside of the knuckle cap. I used a washer or two to get the distance perfect so that I could put the knuckle on and have about a 1/4" of space between the knuckle and the knuckle cap. (Is everyone still following me here?) I then threaded the cap nuts and torqued it on so that the cap was flush with the knuckle. I was thinking it should have been pretty flush. It didnt work, there was still a slight wobble, but it changed once again.
Thinking about it now, I think my problem was that I didnt seat the bushing flush down inside the knuckle. If I can use a jack under the hub and raise and lower the hub assembly until I can pound the bushing into its seat nice and flush, then Ill put the spacer back in, knowing that its applying pressure on a flush bushing. Im going to try that today and see what happens.
I think thats the key here... it seems in this thread people are more concentrated on addressing the problem at its root (the unstable spring loaded kingpins) rather than trying a slew of ways to just try and reduce feeling the effects of the root problem (i.e. steering stabilizers, crossover, new steering boxes, steering pumps, ect.) All these measures accomplish is trying to dampen the effect of the vibrations at the axle level being felt at the body level of the truck.
Im glad to see that the infamous Dana 60 "Death Wobble" looks as if its becoming less and less of mystery.
Oh, and just as a sidenote, those of you who say, "Yeah I have a 10 bolt in the front and I have the death wobble too.." No, you dont have the death wobble. You have unbalanced or unaligned tires, lose u-bolts, jacked up steering, or something else... The term "Death Wobble" ONLY applies to the Dana 60 and the vibrations associated with it's king pin knuckle design.
Have nice day all, Ill be posting again very soon.
Flexy K20
1/2 ton status
I fully agree with yeild2me, maybe it's time to sign up for a membership, it was by far the best $25 I ever spent.
Steve could use the money right now, so there could'nt be a better time. Help us all save the site we love. Later
-fLeXy K20
Steve could use the money right now, so there could'nt be a better time. Help us all save the site we love. Later
-fLeXy K20
KRAZIE87K5
1/2 ton status
I finally got so frustrated with my DW issue that I bought the WTO hyrdro assist system to eliminate the issue. YES, it just hides the real issues in the 60... but for now I just need an answer. I'll look for the REAL problem later when I have some spare time.
I don't know if I like the solid "bushing" idea you are talking about... problem is, the next part inline to take the abuse will be the plastic bushing that is below your spacers... I don't like that idea. I would leave the spring in there one way or another. Just my .02 /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
-Dan
I don't know if I like the solid "bushing" idea you are talking about... problem is, the next part inline to take the abuse will be the plastic bushing that is below your spacers... I don't like that idea. I would leave the spring in there one way or another. Just my .02 /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
-Dan
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and just as a sidenote, those of you who say, "Yeah I have a 10 bolt in the front and I have the death wobble too.." No, you dont have the death wobble. You have unbalanced or unaligned tires, lose u-bolts, jacked up steering, or something else... The term "Death Wobble" ONLY applies to the Dana 60 and the vibrations associated with it's king pin knuckle design.
[/ QUOTE ]
What A BS statement if there ever was one! I HAD death wobble with new joints, perfect alignment, non jacked up steering, tight u-joints, balanced tires, and everything else with my Dana 44. Don't make a statement thats completely untrue unless you are just trying to look like an idiot.
Oh, and just as a sidenote, those of you who say, "Yeah I have a 10 bolt in the front and I have the death wobble too.." No, you dont have the death wobble. You have unbalanced or unaligned tires, lose u-bolts, jacked up steering, or something else... The term "Death Wobble" ONLY applies to the Dana 60 and the vibrations associated with it's king pin knuckle design.
[/ QUOTE ]
What A BS statement if there ever was one! I HAD death wobble with new joints, perfect alignment, non jacked up steering, tight u-joints, balanced tires, and everything else with my Dana 44. Don't make a statement thats completely untrue unless you are just trying to look like an idiot.
