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Welding to Super Duty Frame?

mtnman210

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I need to attach a receiver tube camper tie down setup to my super duty. The last set I made for my Chevy3500 I just welded to the frame. But now I started hearing the Super Duty frames are tempered and I can't weld on them.

Mine is a 2000 F350 longbed crewcab single rear wheel. Anybody know if I can weld to that frame?
 
You would think I would know, but I don't. If its tempered, its best not to weld to it, but I don't know for sure if yours is.
I'll ask around. Owners manual should say if you can find a copy.
 
I need to attach a receiver tube camper tie down setup to my super duty. The last set I made for my Chevy3500 I just welded to the frame. But now I started hearing the Super Duty frames are tempered and I can't weld on them.

Mine is a 2000 F350 longbed crewcab single rear wheel. Anybody know if I can weld to that frame?
You are not supposed to weld to it in the middle of the frame, I sure hope you are not putting the hitch in the middle.:whistle:
You can weld at the end of the frame because that section is not structural anymore.
My big rig is the same, and they do weld the ends for hitches and stuff, even to make the taper on the frame they cut it and welded it.
 
The owners manual will tell you all you need to know. About your particular truck.

What I've seen the rules for welding on frames is fairly convoluted. Don't take the rules for bigrigs and try to apply them to your pickup though.

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I think everything connected to the rails is bolted or riveted.Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure.Not sure if they do anything special to them but there's a possibility they do so there more flexible and don't crack.
 
The owners manual will tell you all you need to know. About your particular truck.

What I've seen the rules for welding on frames is fairly convoluted. Don't take the rules for bigrigs and try to apply them to your pickup though.

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Yes but I think what hes concerned with is ford may have tempered the frame like a big rig to add strength to it. In which case technically you are not suppose to weld to it.

Heres my take on it, take it how you like. Welding on a tempered frame is not suppose to be done because the heated area is effectively detempered and altered from the rest of the frame. Now Ive had this discussion with a lot of duece guys before who act like the truck is going to implode if you weld something on the frame. The fact of the matter is if you have a tempered frame in your vehicle then there is a good chance that the temper calculated as part of the GVWR of the truck.

Now in the example of the deuce guys you are talking about people bob'ing deuces and no longer using them to hall what they were originally rated for AND the curb weight has drastically gone down on the vehicle. At that point I think its moot.

Now if you're talking about a tow rig thats gonna carry huge weight I would take the given advise. Dont weld anything in the center of the frame, IE from axle to axle because that is where the strength of the temper is coming into play.
 
So how are guys welding full cages, traction bars, front suspension kits to these newer trucks, or are they just asking for trouble
 
i agree with iceman,we got a new "B class" freightliner in at work, im not sure of the model number but u need a class B CDL for it. we attached a boom to the back and i was asking the mechanic how its ok that he welded an extra piece of frame across the back to cap the rails. and he said because it was on the back tip and not structural or holding much weight over time it was ok to. same with our older mack dump truck. but other than going by what he has said..i dont have a clue about it
 
You can't apply commercial vehicle regulations or practices to pickups. Got to drop that train of thought.

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You can't apply commercial vehicle regulations or practices to pickups. Got to drop that train of thought.

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Sounds like if it can apply to 80klbs being towed, a measly 10k on the passenger pickup shouldnt be an issue :dunno:

I would just bolt it. It wouldnt be worth it to me
 
I still don't know for sure if its tempered or not. But here is some info about welding to a tempered piece of steel.
I could write a pretty good sized book about steel and its hardening processes, but basically a tempered piece of steel has been heated to its transition point, and allowed to cool slowly.
At that point, it is is annealed, and is as soft and malleable as it can get. This is when all the bending, drilling, machining and other things are done to it.

Then, it is heated to the transition point again, and then cooled rapidly. Either by quenching it in plain water, salt water, or oil, depending on how likely it is to crack.
At this point, it is hardened, and is about as hard, rigid and brittle as it can get.

It is then slowly heated to a precise temperature, either directly, or in a series of steps, held at that temperature for a certain length of time, and then allowed to cool at a prescribed rate.
At this point it is tempered, and its strength, rigidity, and toughness is determined by that tempering process.
By that process, I could take a piece of steel, and make it where you could bend it with your hands, need hundreds of pounds of force to bend it, or have it snap in two instead of bending.

There is a ton of science that goes into that process. When you weld to it, you change its properties.
In a way you cannot predict. It may be harder, softer, more or less brittle, you just never know.
What is worse, you usually create a narrow transition zone between two sets of properties that creates a stress riser.
When you weld to a thick piece of steel, the part touching the weld is heated to well past the annealing point, and then, when the thick piece of steel next to it sucks the heat away, the rapid cooling causes that area to be much harder than the rest.
So, when its stressed, the original part bends slightly, but that part does not, and it usually cracks at the seam between the two.

Most of you have seen that without realizing it. Its when you weld two parts together, and it breaks right next to the weld in the nonwelded metal.
I have seen parts that are one wide weld. They were repaired, and broke right next to the weld. Then welded there, and broke a little farther along. Rinse, lather, repeat.

If you are going to have to weld to a tempered frame, I would suggest using a torch to heat the weld to a very dull red, not too hot, for a few minutes after welding to at least spread the change over a wider area, and then pounding it with a hammer as it cools to do some stress relief.
This might help.

But, DO NOT heat a wide area of the frame, you will be just making it worse if its tempered, by drawing the temper of more of the metal.

But, far better, is to drill and use bolts instead of welding. If you have a weld-on hitch, weld some pieces to it, and then drill those pieces and use bolts to mount them to the frame.

Its far better than taking a chance of a cracked frame or mount.
And, just because its tempered, does not mean it cannot be drilled. A good TiN drill, with lots of oil and a slow speed will drill some pretty hard stuff. You may have to start small to increase the pounds per square inch loading.
 
Sounds like if it can apply to 80klbs being towed, a measly 10k on the passenger pickup shouldnt be an issue :dunno:

Pickup truck frames are not manufactured like class 8 truck frames. A very simple truth in my mind. So applying practices of one to the other seems inherantly wrong.


Class 8 weights dont directly ride throught the tractor frame rails though. Plus the 5th wheel plate is bolted to the frame.


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