why doesnt anyone... (cummins nv4500)

[obijuank5]

why dont I see anyone using an early model gm nv4500 behind a 12 valve?

say I have already swapped the k30 with that style trans with external slave done and done. Then I want to motor swap it to a 12 valve. What is going on there between the two that make it an option I have never read about before? why cant I use @CrewCab59 motor mounts and a block adapter with all gm items inside the bell?

I currently have the setup waiting to go in but I had low fuel pressure in the 6.2l so I had already pulled the engine in my head. Just needed a fuel filter. But it got me thinking of when it shits the bed. I am now forced to do the trans swap because i have somehow cracked the th400 case with my mall crawling.

I have read several cummins related threads but just not on this subject.

Heres the crap that showed itself when I pulled the filter. Time for some fuel lines I guess.

cracked case.

 

[sweetk30]

cummins inputs on nv4500 = bigger than gm inputs.

this I do recall reading . . .

 

[kennyw]

The 12V requires a different bellhousing and clutch than a 6.2L but I do not know all of the differences.

 

[obijuank5]

I do understand that, but there is an application with GM nv4500s behind a 4bt. I understand big power for the input but lets consider that a stock 12 valve is less than BBC power levels.

 

[sweetk30]

do a spicer 3053a behind it .

 

[kennyw]

lets consider that a stock 12 valve is less than BBC power levels.

A stock 12 valve is 450-600 ft-lb of torque depending on the year. A 1970 ls5 454 is 500 ft-lb. None of the modern big blocks come close to that.

Shafts and splines are sized based on torque. On top of that, bolting a Chevy clutch to a dodge flywheel is probably not going to work without an expensive adapter kit.

 

[yellowK20]

Input is shorter as well ,

Also since the early GMs had the low first gear you can't even swap inputs .

And the bellhousing to trans bolt pattern is different between Dodge and GM

No you can get a different flywheel housing for the Cummins , both factory and aftermarket that would allow you to bolt to just about any trans you wanted . But they are expensive for aftermarket ones , hard to find for stock , and will really limit what clutch you can use.


So there is a whole mess of reasons to not use them, now you can do what I did use a GM tail shaft in a dodge (with the upgraded 1-3/8 input ) N4500 , hooked to a Ford 205 with a GM input

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Input is shorter as well ,

Also since the early GMs had the low first gear you can't even swap inputs .

And the bellhousing to trans bolt pattern is different between Dodge and GM

No you can get a different flywheel housing for the Cummins , both factory and aftermarket that would allow you to bolt to just about any trans you wanted . But they are expensive for aftermarket ones , hard to find for stock , and will really limit what clutch you can use.


So there is a whole mess of reasons to not use them, now you can do what I did use a GM tail shaft in a dodge (with the upgraded 1-3/8 input ) N4500 , hooked to a Ford 205 with a GM input

Yep

 

[obijuank5]

Welp. K.

 

[datmony]

I would drop a call to advanced adapters and see if they can give you some guidance on where to start looking for insights. They make the bellhousing for my CJ to mount the inline 6 over to my franken NV4500 (GM first gear, Dodge style output to the dana 300). While they do not focus on diesels they may give some insight and they make a bellhousing (see below).

Couple other resources to take a look at that might at least spark the creativity:

http://high-impact.net/NV4500 into an 94 and Up Dodge Truck with 5.9L Cummins.htm
http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/712586a-dodge-nv4500-cummins-59l-diesel-bell-housing-kit/
http://www.advanceadapters.com/categories/nv4500-retrofit-adapter-packages/79/
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-75681.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/777795-1992-c1500-suburban-6bt-nv4500-4x4-conversion.html

I would love to see it done. My favorite drivetrain mixed with my favorite body would be sweet!!

 

[campfire]

I've seen the Dodge case / GM tail housing work out well, and I've heard of custom bell housings, but things get pricey fast.

@kennyw, what prevents a GM clutch disc from working with a Dodge flywheel? If the thickness and diameter are suitable it should be a match, right?

 

[kennyw]

what prevents a GM clutch disc from working with a Dodge flywheel?

What are the odds two competing companies engineered two flywheels for different aplications with the same bolt pattern and interface dimensions?

 

[campfire]

What are the odds two competing companies engineered two flywheels for different aplications with the same bolt pattern and interface dimensions?

I understand not bolting a GM flywheel on a Dodge engine. But I would have sworn that I've read of folks mixing and matching 12" clutches with random flywheels of different brands. I don't see what problem you would have unless the disc thickness was incompatible or the pilot bearing had a different location or amount of throw. Flywheel & pressure plate match the engine, clutch disc matches the tranny, and bell housing / clutch linkage are some custom pattern. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Alan2smiley]

I have a NV4500 behind a 4BT, the NV4500 came out of a 2 wheel 92 Dodge ram 3.9 V6 150. The same year Dodge was using the G-rag behind the 6bt. I used all 6bt parts on the front and GM on the tail housing including the Diesel damping thingy and GM round pattern 205.