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12 inch lift, 44 X 19.5 X 15 Boggers, and crossover steering.

D

Dieselmh

1/2 ton status
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I have some question that I need help with, so this is ya'll chance to help spend my money! I scanned about 20 pages of the forum, and searching brings up all kinds of stuff about Dana 44s, 12 bolts, and sig lines, but not much real help.

I'm going through a restructuring of my life right now, and one of the things involved is finishing my blazer and getting it back on the road, err... trail. I want to run 12 inches of suspension lift since it's mostly used for mud, and run 19.5 inch wide 44 inch boggers on 15 inch Bart beadlocks. I'm also getting ready to swap in my Dana 60 and 14 bolt with disc brakes, and crossover steering. I'm having a hard time finding recommendations for 12 inch suspension lifts, and backspacing sizes and widths for my rims. I don't care if I have to cut my fenders, and I know that I'll have to grind my calipers up front and possibly the rear. Is anyone running tires that wide on 1 ton axles? If so, what backspacing are you running, what width rim, what type of lift, etc? All information is welcome, as well as criticism, comments, etc. I could drop down to 18 inch wide tires, but would like to stay as wide as possible to help keep the Animal on top of the mud. Also, will crossover steering be OK with that much lift, or will I have to make any special changes? This is the last leg of the buildup, I've already rebuilt the engine, tranny, xfer case, radiator, replaced body mounts, repaired the floor and had it caged, so I'm in the home stretch now. Thanks in advance.
 
You need to talk to Ratzila, he's running the set up you described. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

15044NEWRATZILA1.jpg
 
only thing I can think about crossover is, reinforce your frame. Thats gonna be a lot of force pushing on that frame turning those tires. Also consider something like a West Texas Off Road Redneck ram setup. Aka hydraulic assist steering. moving those big meats is a lot to ask of the stock PS system.
 
Superlift makes a 12" kit that is pretty popular and I thik Skyjacker does also. Genuine suspension also makes a 12" kit for cheap but I don't think it's complete. Crossover would be your best choice with that much lift. The barts seem to be a popular choice for the mud runners and I would go with a 15x14 to keep your tread nice and wide. About 3" of backspacing should be fine and help keep the grinding down to a minimum. You will have to cut the fenders with only 12" of lift and 44's. How deep of mud do you do? If it's deep enough the boggers will work like rudders and you should be able to steer fine but in slightly shallower stuff boggers like to go strait. I would suggest running 44x19.5 boggers in the rear and 44x18 TSL's in the front.
 
A bud of mine runs a 3 inch body 6 inch springs front and back with the front axle pushed out 6" and a lil bit of trimming to fir the 44s ..... heres a pic....


SwampRatmtview.jpg
 
When I had my 91 blazer I was running 12" superlift with 3" body lift no fender trimming. It would still rub. I had 15"x14" bart wheels with 3 1/2" backspacing. You still would have to /forums/images/graemlins/grind.gif the calipers.That is why I went with 16.5's when I lifted the /forums/images/graemlins/burb.gif for 44's. The blazer had 3" steering block,2" drop pitman arm & 4" drop drag link.I ended busting the frame at the steering box. For the sub I went eith crossover steering /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I also have rock ram steering. Haven't had any problems yet. I also recommend that you reinforce the frame.Also go with high angle driveshafts. I didn't with the blazer and broke too many TH400 input shafts from the vibrations.
 
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You need to talk to Ratzila, he's running the set up you described. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

15044NEWRATZILA1.jpg


[/ QUOTE ]Nice Rig /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
I'm running a 91 blazer with the same set up you want for the most part.

First of all, I run around 11" of lift in the front and about 13" in the rear. I have 8" springs up front with shackles on either end and links to locate the axle. I moved the axle ahead an inch. It's really flexy and I can get into the front of the fenderwells no prob, I have the rear cut out to near the firewall. In the rear I run 56"x4" springs with about a 5" flip I made and 4" blocks welded to the tube. I run the rear springs backwards, but with the axle moved forward an inch. (total of 3" rearward) The tires still get into the fenders, but only at the tops under full stuff.

I run 15x14 bart beadlocks on 2.5" backspaced wheels (maybe 3.5, I'd have to measure, I don't recall) the 5/16 bolts are garbage, run at least 16 3/8 bolts, I knocked all the nutcerts out and run 16 3/8 bolts in the rear and drilled the fronts for 32 3/8 bolts.

Run high angle driveline C/V's as nothing else will hold up (5 years of busting shafts tells me this) I busted a pinion last weekend in the 60 and the B.A.M.F. from high angle is still holding up fine.

I run crossover, but before you even change the box get a weld in frame patch kit. I ripped my box off on the first wheeling trip. Now I run hydro assist. I can turn my tires at 3 psi in 4 low with a detroit in either end, plus now I can turn lock to lock and have no bump steer. I could only turn (barely) while moving before and now the tires point exactly where I want them too.

If you want the all out best in traction, run boggers at both ends. Some guys say different. Probably the same crowd that thinks beadlocks aren't that great either. Dude, beadlocked boggers at 3psi is like comparing 39.5 swampers to 44" boggers.

with a good flexy suspension, lockers, beadlocks and hydro steering you'll bust less parts than if you were open, had stiff springs, full tire pressure and GM style steering.

Anymore questions? Ask.
Chad.
 
I would seriously reconsider any recommendation to run the weld in patch. It fits like complete crap, the hole centers are not right, and your box will still be able to move around with that setup.

I believe the weld patch now that I've used it is a total hack job. It fits HORRIBLY and really needs to be pulled off the market.

An uncracked frame, the bolt in patch, and hydro assist are all in your future if you want to drive this rig on the street. Otherwise go full hydro and eliminate the frame problem....if you don't you will have issues for sure.

I sell the bolt in patch and offer free shipping to CK5 members. You can get if from me, ORD, or any of the other distributors or from Autofab if you desire. No matter what, get it. It's worth it, and doubtful that you'll know just how much it is worth unless you believe what we've all told you here or you end up ripping your frame apart.

I run Sky's crossover steering.
 
Thanks for the great replies, guys. I'll either get the bolt in steering box fix, or make my own. We've done the repair on my buddy's '86 and even though the 70s weren't as prone to tearing, I'm not taking any chances. It looks like I'll probably be going with 14 inch wide Barts with 3.5 or 4 inch backspacing. Keep the suggestions coming if ya'll have any more!
 
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Thanks for the great replies, guys. I'll either get the bolt in steering box fix, or make my own. We've done the repair on my buddy's '86 and even though the 70s weren't as prone to tearing, I'm not taking any chances. It looks like I'll probably be going with 14 inch wide Barts with 3.5 or 4 inch backspacing. Keep the suggestions coming if ya'll have any more!

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The 70s frames are MUCH MORE prone to cracking than the '80s frames.
 
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Thanks for the great replies, guys. I'll either get the bolt in steering box fix, or make my own. We've done the repair on my buddy's '86 and even though the 70s weren't as prone to tearing, I'm not taking any chances. It looks like I'll probably be going with 14 inch wide Barts with 3.5 or 4 inch backspacing. Keep the suggestions coming if ya'll have any more!

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The 70s frames are MUCH MORE prone to cracking than the '80s frames.

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so the 80's frame is better?
so a 1980 frame is better than a 1979? I have a 1979.. guess I got screwed /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
 
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Thanks for the great replies, guys. I'll either get the bolt in steering box fix, or make my own. We've done the repair on my buddy's '86 and even though the 70s weren't as prone to tearing, I'm not taking any chances. It looks like I'll probably be going with 14 inch wide Barts with 3.5 or 4 inch backspacing. Keep the suggestions coming if ya'll have any more!

[/ QUOTE ]

The 70s frames are MUCH MORE prone to cracking than the '80s frames.

[/ QUOTE ]

so the 80's frame is better?
so a 1980 frame is better than a 1979? I have a 1979.. guess I got screwed /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif

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They didn't go to the new frame design until mid year 82. The newer design has much more triangulation that that front crossmember and I carry a different bolt in patch kit for those trucks.

My truck is an 84 but is on a 1979 frame so I'm in the same boat as you. I swapped out the old bent frame only to swap in an inferior frame.
 
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Thanks for the great replies, guys. I'll either get the bolt in steering box fix, or make my own. We've done the repair on my buddy's '86 and even though the 70s weren't as prone to tearing, I'm not taking any chances. It looks like I'll probably be going with 14 inch wide Barts with 3.5 or 4 inch backspacing. Keep the suggestions coming if ya'll have any more!

[/ QUOTE ]

The 70s frames are MUCH MORE prone to cracking than the '80s frames.

[/ QUOTE ]

so the 80's frame is better?
so a 1980 frame is better than a 1979? I have a 1979.. guess I got screwed /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

They didn't go to the new frame design until mid year 82. The newer design has much more triangulation that that front crossmember and I carry a different bolt in patch kit for those trucks.

My truck is an 84 but is on a 1979 frame so I'm in the same boat as you. I swapped out the old bent frame only to swap in an inferior frame.

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Oh! I got lucky with both my trucks! 1984, baby!... stir the pot /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif
 
Let me rephrase that. I thought that 1970 (the year, not the range of years in the 70s) didn't have as big of a problem cracking the frame. I was always under the impression that the '69-'73 K5s didn't suffer frame cracks nearly as bad as the later models. I'll still probably brace it just to be safe, though. I think I'm going with ORD's crossover steering, and may upgrade to the Redneck ram and high steer a little ways down the road.

edit: I also was wondering if it would be better to go with a 4 inch shackle flip in the rear with 8 inch leafs as apposed to 12 inch springs. I know the ride is going to be rough regardless, but I didn't know if a shoter lift spring combined with a shackle flip would be better.
 
Yes, if you use the shackle flip combined with shorter springs, i.e. 8" instead of 12" it will improve the flex, and the ride of your rig. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
 
Tim, I had good luck with my weld in kit. A hot torch, some c-clamps, and a 3/32" 6011 rod worked out very well with my kit. Holes all lined up and everything. Maybe I just got lucky on my `83. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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