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14BFF Wheel Bearing Questions

BGKYK5

BGKYK5

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Axle is from a '78 C20, I am putting in all new Timken bearings and cups (races).

14BFF Wheel Bearing Questions:

I test fit the inner bearing cup into the bore and was able to push it into place and then spin it by hand (snug, but no press fit). I am guessing the hub is shot, but would like any input on how to save it since I have already gone to all the trouble to wire wheel it clean and paint it. The bore doesn't look damaged to me, in fact the other bore looks a little rougher (but not too bad), but the cup won't go into that one by hand (so it will be a press fit). Both the old cups were in nice and tight - I got a workout pounding them out.

The GM manual I have (from '91 V series) says to install both of the cups, and then install both bearings. Since they are tapered roller bearings it only makes sense for the taper to be in opposite directions on the inner and outer bearings. It doesn't seem possible to drop the bearings in afterward. With both bearings tapering in, the only way to fit the outer bearing in after the races would be though the outer hole, but it won't fit. The inner bearing would go in though.

Should I pack the bearings with regular wheel bearings grease? I know they are lubed with gear oil in normal operation, but what should I lube them with to start? Just pack them like a regular wheel bearing?
 
Thats wierd if the old races fit snug in there. Make sure you didnt get a wrong part number by one number or something. There is also a specific way the bearings go into the 14B hubs. IIRC its the outer bearing then outer race then inner race then inner bearing then seal. One of them has that PITA snap ring. Its been awhile since I had one apart, but they do go together wierd. I know you cant install both cups then both bearings.

You can put some grease on them if you want or just squirt them with some 90w before you install the hubs.
 
uhhh.... yeah, somethings wrong, either the wrong race, or a shot hub

assembly should be like this:
position hub with wheel mate surface facing down
first place OUTER bearing into hub (taper like this / \ )
next install OUTER race into hub (press fit, pound it all the way down)
install the big snap ring just above outer race,
flip assembly over and re-seat outer race against big snap ring
flip assembly over
install INNER race into hub (press fit)
install INNER bearing into hub (taper like this \ / )
install wheel seal into hub (press fit)
install drum/disk

for the press fit stuff a 3 lb hammer and a brass drift work just as well.... much cheaper than a press and ALL the appropriate blocks or paying a shop to do it

for lube: you can coat the bearings in oil prior to install, then squirt some more oil into the "reservoir" between the two bearings just before you seal it back up. Once the whole axle is back together and refilled, i would tip it and let it sit for a couple mins so you know each side is fully immersed in oil. Some people also lightly pack the bearings with grease, but if you make sure there is plenty of oil on both sides prior to driving, it shouldnt need it
 
When installing bearing races I like to use bearing surface Loc-Tite. It spicificly for applications like bearing races and such, it for cylindrical bonding. Just make sure to wipe off any that might get onto the bearing contact surface. It will keep bearing races from spinning in the hub.
 
You can "dutch fit" the race that spins. "Dutch fitting" is nothing more than putting a bunch of punch marks in the race area so that it raises material. It's not the preferred method but it does work if the races doesn't wobble around in the bore. I then use locktite on the ID of the hub then drive the race in.
 
Thanks for the input. The way you guys describe putting together the hub is the only way I see that it would work - but the manual disagrees. That's the second time the manual has been wrong :mad:

But now............... The plot thickens.

I happen to have a spare hub, so I pounded out the bearings and wheel studs and removed the drum. Before you bust out your "This thread is useless ...." smilies:

hubs.JPG

The two top ones are supposedly from a '79 K20 Sub (according to the PO), the code on the ring gear was 79. The one on the left is the "loose" one.

The one on the bottom is theoretically from a '78 C20 pickup (as near as I can tell) the code on the ring gear was 78.

Both top hubs have a casting # that appears to be 387 7397. No casting number is visible on the bottom hub, but then again it is covered in junk. It is clearly a different part though, the area where the wheel studs go through is square on the '78 and round on the '79s. The '78 also has two "thick" parts on the back of the wheel mounting flange 180* apart, while the two '79s have only one.

bearings.JPG

The two bearings on the right are the new ones - purchased from AutoZone for a '78 C20. The code on them is 382A 492 [lambda] USA SS, however the PN on the box is 387AS.

I was able to dig the old cups that came out of the "tight" '79 hub out of the trash It is on the upper left. Its code is 382A [lambda] USA LV.

The one on the lower left is the one I pounded out of the '78 hub. No markings are visible on that one.

snap rings.JPG

The snap rings were also different. The style on the left came out of both '79 hubs and the style on the right came out of the '78.

bearings.JPG

hubs.JPG

snap rings.JPG
 
All four cups can be wiggled into the "loose" '79 hub by hand. There would be some amount of press fit with all of the cups in either the "tight" '79 hub or the '78 hub (they feel about the same).

So, to make a short story long, my question is: what should I do?

1. Try to make the cups fit in the matched '79 hubs that are already clean and purdy using some kind of "dutch fit", or shim, or locktight, or some combination thereof.

2. Clean up the '78 hub and use it with the "tight" '79 hub.


I am a little concerned about the differences in the hubs and any other issues I might run into with the '78 hub, but am also concerned about trying to make a "bad" part work. Set my fragile mind at ease one way or the other.
 
The 382A is the bearing race and the 387AS is the bearing. This is the inner bearing info. The outer bearing can be purchased as a set by number A38.
 
Yup, I have 2 of each of 387AS (inner bearing), SET38 (outer set), 382A (inner race), and 2081 (seal). I just looked at the wrong box when I listed the 387AS PN above. :doah:
 
Yeah, I know, but I'm feeling lazy and it sounds like a lot of work. I'm also afraid I'll get the third one all cleaned up and run into some other issue. Guess I'll never know for sure unless I get off my keester huh?
 
i had a spun race and i did the "dutch fit" w/ punch....i made 2 punch marks vertically in the race landing spaced about 1/4'' apart all the way around the race landing and then locktite...2 yrs ago....i tried to replace it back around halloween and i couldn't drive it back out!....it didn't look to bad so i left it and its still running fine....btw..i always use my old race to drive the new 1 in...i've scared them w/ a punch b4
 
I've been using a brass drift. It's softer than the bearing so it won't hurt it. I just have to keep blowing out the little bits of brass that flake off. :dunno:
 
I am about to rebuild my hubs, but was curious if it would be possible to just disassemble and clean all the bearings and re-install them or is there no way to remove the bearings with out damaging them
 
you cant get the outer bearing out without removing both races... so that would be a lot of work just to clean out a bearing. Inner bearing just has the wheel seal holding it in, so thats easy

considering that the bearings are oil lubed though, you should probably be able to just blast it with enough oil to clean it out.
 
I went ahead and cleaned up, painted, and reassembled the odd hub out. No problems so far, but I haven't gotten the discs on yet..........
 
I guess I should update this. Discs are on and everything went together without any more hitches. Now I just gotta do brake lines and the trans and maybe I can drive it one day. :waytogo:

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