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14ff... uh oh... Help?

78Suburban

78Suburban

1/2 ton status
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Ok, since I had my carrier lincoln locked, I was gonig to put it back in tonight, and with it installed in the truck, I was gonna torque all my ring gear bolts down to spec.

When I origionally took the carrier out, I marked the adjuster collers, and threaded them in EXACTLY 2 turns each, to keep things easy to remember. When I went to adjust them back, toward the end of turning the second one, It got really hard to turn. carrier has NO play in it, isn't is supposed to?

I've got a few posibile causes for this in my mind....

There might be some VERY small welding spatter areas where the axles spline into, which could be making the carrier not have any play...

I haven't torqued down the ring gear to spec yet, its only been pulled down with an impact, but that wouldn't cause this would it? because the ring gear is seated firmly against the carrier...

or

maybe I smoked crack and overlooked the adjuster and accidentially turned one out 3 turns??? I was shocked at how hard it was to turn toward the end there.. really had to pull it tight with my punch.........

Whatever be the case, I'm not sure what to do now?? I'm betting if I were to put it back together right now, it would chew the gears up... Any suggestions on what I should do next?? :crazy:
 
Sounds wrong to me. When you say the carrier has no play, do you mean backlash (play between ring and pinion)? The carrier should not move at all left to right.
 
38377k5 said:
Sounds wrong to me. When you say the carrier has no play, do you mean backlash (play between ring and pinion)? The carrier should not move at all left to right.
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I can pull on it in all directions and it doesn't budge at all.. isn't there something that is supposed to have a bit of play, maybe trying to turn it by hand? Or am I mistaken? I thought there was something you could kinda "feel" for
 
I think what you are thinking of is when you turn the pinion there should be some play before it hits the teeth on the ring gear. With the carrier installed there should be NO play at all with the carrier itself.
 
stallion85 said:
I think what you are thinking of is when you turn the pinion there should be some play before it hits the teeth on the ring gear. With the carrier installed there should be NO play at all with the carrier itself.
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well that's a good sign...

maybe the coller was hard to turn in because the oil dried out in the few days I had the diff empty??
 
78Suburban said:
well that's a good sign...

maybe the coller was hard to turn in because the oil dried out in the few days I had the diff empty??
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the carrier should turn some by hand...not easy but not so hard you have to pry it to get it to move. Sounds like you preloaded the carrier bearings too much.
 
I thought of a way to test if I turned a coller out too many times... since I did it exactly 2 turns each when I took it out... I can do exactly two turns on each side and see if the carrier falls out.... Am I thinking about this wrong??
 
redneckdude said:
the carrier should turn some by hand...not easy but not so hard you have to pry it to get it to move. Sounds like you preloaded the carrier bearings too much.
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I think it may have moved some when it was an open carrier... but would it move if it's all welded up solid? Its been welded VERY solid, much like Billa Vista welded his http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/
 
If you hold the pinion yoke and try to rotate the ring gear back and forth, you should be able to feel a small amount of play in between the ring and pinion (backlash). If there is no play, you messed up that adjustment and you will either need to borrow/buy a dial caliper with magnetic base or pay someone to fix it.
 
Man, I'm kinda relieved.. I think I know what went wrong.. After an IM conversation with Chaddy...

Like I said, there were some very small welding spatter burrs inside the splines of the carrier, but I was thinking the axle would kinda just push past them.....

I didn't realize the shafts went in last... what I did was..

turn the right collar in 2 turns, and hollar for my buddy to slide the right shaft in...

then turned the left adjuster coller, which was VERY tight and hard to do, and then slid the left shaft in....

I think the right shaft probably kinda hung up on a burr, and pushed the whole carrier over to the left, making the left collar very hard to turn on the last 1/4 turn..

I'm gonna slide the shafts back out, back both collars BACK out 2 turns, and do it over agian, sliding the shafts in last..

hopefully its just something simple like that.. and please no sig lines about me sliding shafts in :haha: :doah:
 
78Suburban said:
I haven't torqued down the ring gear to spec yet, its only been pulled down with an impact, but that wouldn't cause this would it? because the ring gear is seated firmly against the carrier...
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the ring gear may be "seated firmly against the carrier" but its not torqued to spec, and should have been before you even thought of putting the carrier back in.
 
beater_k20 said:
the ring gear may be "seated firmly against the carrier" but its not torqued to spec, and should have been before you even thought of putting the carrier back in.
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fair enough.. how do you suggest I hold it tight enough to get 120 ftlbs? I got my buddy who's pretty dang strong to try to hold it while I turned the wrench, but we couldn't do it.. turning the wrench that hard is easy, but holding a ring gear in place is NOT easy :eek1:
 
It can be done. I installed a detroit into a 2 1/2ton rockwell front for the twister buggy. and no vice, torqued the carrier back together me on the torque wrench and Clayton on the leather gloves and strong arms. really not that bad. But that should have deffinatelty been done before reinstalling the carrier. yes shafts last after backlash and pattern is set.
 
DEMON44 said:
It can be done. I installed a detroit into a 2 1/2ton rockwell front for the twister buggy. and no vice, torqued the carrier back together me on the torque wrench and Clayton on the leather gloves and strong arms. really not that bad. But that should have deffinatelty been done before reinstalling the carrier. yes shafts last after backlash and pattern is set.
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How big is the ring gear on the rocky? The problem is, the smaller the ring gear, the harder it is to hold, becaue there is less mechanical advatage.. Holding my 10.5" ring gear down for 120 ftlbs is like trying to turn rack and pinion steering with a 10" steering wheel....its kinda hard to do :doah:
I need to take a look at my vice again, I MIGHT be able to figure out how to fit it in there...

whatever be the case, I'm definitely gonna take it out and do it over, this time sliding the shafts in last :waytogo:
 
When I rebuilt the 14bff, this is how I tightened down the ring gear bolts (I did have my axle out of the vehicle, so this would be easier).

I tightened the gear bolts as much as I could do by hand.

I installed the carrier into the axle without the pinion in the case. I loosely ran the carrier holddowns back into the case to hold carrier in place.

I had a helper hold each opposing ring gear bolt with a prybar while I tightened the gear down with a torque wrench, tightening in a star pattern(I used rags and cushions of sort not to damage the housing or bolts, worked great)

I marked every bolt I torqued, as not to miss any. Then I double checked each bolt for proper torque.

I installed the pinion, set backlash, tightened holddown clamps, torqued all bolts, and ran a pattern with the gear marking compound. I didnt even install the axleshafts unitl the axle was put under the car.
 
78Suburban.......We didn't do the ring gear. We split the carrier, which has a bolt circle much smaller than the ring gear. I can't recall the TQ spec for sure but I think it was 120ft-lbs. But I understand what you're saying about mechanical advantage.


How big is it, this is it

post-1-1155494706_thumb.jpg
 
To torque the ring gear bolts by yourself do this. Put the carrier ring gear side up on a table to your left side looking at the table. Stick a large pry bar in the access hole for the spider gears. Put a socket/wrench on the bolt to be tightend. While pulling the wrench toward you let the pry bar rest against your stomach to stop the carrier from spinning. I did this yesterday putting an E-Locker in a Dana 60 and im only about 160 lbs.
 
JpEater said:
To torque the ring gear bolts by yourself do this. Put the carrier ring gear side up on a table to your left side looking at the table. Stick a large pry bar in the access hole for the spider gears. Put a socket/wrench on the bolt to be tightend. While pulling the wrench toward you let the pry bar rest against your stomach to stop the carrier from spinning. I did this yesterday putting an E-Locker in a Dana 60 and im only about 160 lbs.
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yeah, jamming the access holes sounds like a great idea.. but mine are full of welds.. my carrier is NEVER gonna break, that joker is a serious spool now :bow:
 
got it in a vice, and was able to torque everything to spec... man, torquing everything the second time really is necessary too!! Now I just gotta go try and put it back in the truck
 
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