1989 Rebuild Stock Front Suspension questions.

[Big6ft6]

My 89 V2500 burb has had a loose front end since I bought it at 209k miles. But recently seemed to cross a line and things are getting really squirrly, really wants to wander and drift pretty bad and seems to change radomly while driving...suddnely pull pretty good to the right etc...then not so bad etc.

So I think I want to re-do all the ball joins, tie rod ends etc. There is a part of me that says compared to pulling and engine and trouble shooting TBI problems, this is just good old pounding, removing and re-installing...

Then I think back to the one ball joint I repalced on a 1971 Pontiac and how it took a week of pounding, praying, heating, swearing, praying some more just to get it off.

Any thoughts on whether I should do this myself? I've never worked on a solid front axle suspension...seems straight forward, but I also see the potential for some VERY stuck parts.

Or would a good 4x4 shop make quick work of this and worth paying them to do it.

 

[4xcrazy]

You're going to pay good money for a shop to do it, but you're going to work your ass off doing it yourself too...

IMO, these front axles are not as easy as say a cars suspension with the upper/lower control arms.

 

[Big6ft6]

Crap...that isn't what I wanted to hear!

Sounds like a lose-lose proposition.

I wonder if I can just get away with doing the loosest parts for now. If I take it into a shop can they determine what is int he worst shape?

 

[shovelbill80]

have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth as you lay under there and see what flops around. pay attention the the steering box/chassis area for cracks. that will give you an good idea what's about to fall apart.

 

[79rustyk10]

check the rag joint, they like to go bad.

Ball joints suck, but I dont think they are too bad with the right tools. this steering/suspension system is pretty basic, not too much that can really be wrong compared to the IFS trucks.

 

[owenst7]

Totally subjective to your experience. It's nothing complicated at all, and like mentioned, there's a couple tools that make the job really easy. I wouldn't bother doing it without a big c-clamp style balljoint press. I have a cheap one that works fine, but I usually rent one (it's free) from Kragen/Autozone/Pep Boys for doing balljoints because they can be seated in there really good.

A good sledge, hub socket, a pickle fork, and that balljoint press is pretty much all you'll need. A torque wrench too I suppose if you don't do it by feel. Oh, and a brass drift. I have multiples of all these tools because I use them so much anyway.

I'd order some Kroil http://www.kanolabs.com/google/, because letting those balljoint heads soak for 24 hours makes the difference between breaking a press and things coming out with ease. PB Blaster, liquid wrench, etc. work too obviously.

Rubber bushings are usually pretty easy to get out if you can get oil around the outside diameter. I use a long, narrow, flat head screwdriver to pry them back and spray in there. after that, you can usually wiggle the screwdriver between the spring and the bushing and get to the other side, then pry against the spring. They almost always shoot across the room when I do it this way. If you have trouble getting the metal sleeve out initially, you can use the balljoint press to push about an inch of the sleeve out of one side of the bushing, and grab it with some water pump pliers. Get some oil in there to eliminate friction, and you can usually twist/wiggle the sleeve out without much headache.

 

[Big6ft6]

(to be read in Homer Simpson voice) "Confidence Rising!!"

O.k. I've completely redone a front suspension from a 35 year old car, control arm bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc etc replaced all with poly stuff...that was a lot of work! But I did do it.

Owenst7 thanks for all the tips! So what if I don't do the steering knuckle ball joints? Are those the hardest ones to do?

I swore I was done starting projects with the truck..but this looseness is getting bad. Where do I look for frame cracks..right where the steering box bolts to the frame, like the bolt holes? Will the cracks really stand out?

 

[owenst7]

(to be read in Homer Simpson voice) "Confidence Rising!!"

O.k. I've completely redone a front suspension from a 35 year old car, control arm bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc etc replaced all with poly stuff...that was a lot of work! But I did do it.

Owenst7 thanks for all the tips! So what if I don't do the steering knuckle ball joints? Are those the hardest ones to do?

I swore I was done starting projects with the truck..but this looseness is getting bad. Where do I look for frame cracks..right where the steering box bolts to the frame, like the bolt holes? Will the cracks really stand out?

I guess you could say the balljoints are the most involved, but none of it really requires any expensive tools or advanced knowledge. If the wheel bearings and the balljoints are fine, it would cut down on a lot of the labor though. The 2 tie rod ends and the two drag link ends are not hard at all. Just need some penetrating oil, a pickle fork and a sledge, plus a wrench for the jamb nuts. Spring bushings aren't bad but you'll need some tall jackstands or something, and a long prying device makes it easier to line up the spring eyes afterward.

Cracks are right around the bolts. There's a good picture in my build thread which is at the top of the garage right now.

 

[Big6ft6]

Thanks again Owens, I'll definitly check out your thread.

Here is my symptoms in case it points to anything specific since I won't get a chance to look more closely for a few days.

When I turn to the right, I don't feel like the truck "bites" very well, it feels like the front left tire is rolling under...when I turn left, the truck really grabs and holds the road like a sport car! Turn right, like down a off ramp from the freeway...it just feels soft, like a sway bar is broken...kind of scary.

More recently it'll pull to the right while going down the freeway..then as try to slowly correct back left...it'll "flop" and be going to far left...then I try to center the wheel.. and slowly drifts back right again.

Sometimes it really pulls to the right really hard...and I almost have turn the wheel a quarter turn to the left to keep it going straight. But then it kind of straigtens out...

Suppose these symptoms could be anything huh? I can't wait to get under there while my wife turns the wheel...see what I can see.

 

[79rustyk10]

the upper joint needs preload set, you need a special socket and a torque wrench to do it, they dont press in. the lowers however are the press in type.

 

[Big6ft6]

upper joints? You mean on the steering knuckles?

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Upper balljoints.


FYI Harbor Freight has a very good ball joint press that can sometimes be had for $30. NAPA and a few other places also sell the D44/10 bolt upper balljoint tool for setting the preload. Rebuilt my stuff a year ago and it was a learning experience but not terrible.

Get Moog balljoints. Better made and their greasing setup is FAR better than most of the stuff out there.

 

[Big6ft6]

How do you test the ball joints? I'm thinking I'm willing to rebuild the steering linkages and associated tie-rod ends, but not to keen on pulling the front axle shafts etc to do the ball joints, just don't have time and energy right now.

Is there a good way to "test" your ball joints? How do I know if mine are bad (other than having 200k+ miles on them)

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Jack up the front axle so a tire isn't touching.

Grab tire at 12 and 6 and start pulling/wiggling it. If you can feel it clunking, time to get new balljoints. If you can, get someone else to do this and you watch.

Repeat on other side.

 

[496truck]

I am in the process of going through an 8 lug 10 bolt front that sat for at least 10 years, outside, under trees, still attached to the truck I got it from, along with the rear. I was amazed at how well the C-clamp ball joint press popped those rusty old ball joints out with ease. If you have the time, it can be done. Air tools, a workbench, and a vise will make the job that much easier. One thing I've heard people do before was remove the knuckles and bring them to a shop and have the shop press out/in the ball joints. This would save you some aggravation if you don't have air tools and some coin vs having the shop do the whole job.

Other tools needed, as described before...
Upper ball joint preload socket
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=1630&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
Wheel bearing socket
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...d=1653&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all
4WD ball joint/u-joint press
http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.html

One more thing, the symptoms you describe are consistent with the front axle u-joints binding and holding the wheels turned in position untill they let loose and you end up over correcting via the steering wheel. You have to strip the front end down to the bare knuckles to pull the axle shafts out, so from there, doing ball joints is only one step away.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Other tools needed, as described before...
Upper ball joint preload socket
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=1630&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

NAPA has a similar tool. Getting them to find it in their tool catalog though...

Wheel bearing socket
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...d=1653&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all

Save your knuckle skin and find the version of this socket with the big ring around the teeth. Keeps the socket on the nut a lot better when you're trying to hit that high torque.

4WD ball joint/u-joint press
http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.html

This is the one I have. Totally worth the money.

 

[Big6ft6]

One more thing, the symptoms you describe are consistent with the front axle u-joints binding and holding the wheels turned in position untill they let loose and you end up over correcting via the steering wheel. You have to strip the front end down to the bare knuckles to pull the axle shafts out, so from there, doing ball joints is only one step away.

So what is involved with fixing "u-joint binding"? New u-joints?....jeesh...this truck never ends!

I said I wanted a "learning experience" well I'm sure getting one...

 

[496truck]

NAPA has a similar tool. Getting them to find it in their tool catalog though...

Save your knuckle skin and find the version of this socket with the big ring around the teeth. Keeps the socket on the nut a lot better when you're trying to hit that high torque.


This is the one I have. Totally worth the money.

You can find/rent/borrow/buy these tools from different vendors and at different quality and prices, I really just posted them so he would know visually what he needed.

So what is involved with fixing "u-joint binding"? New u-joints?....jeesh...this truck never ends!

I said I wanted a "learning experience" well I'm sure getting one...

You would need the big hub bearing socket to do this. In short terms, you would remove the hub, then the outer bearing locknut, the spacer ring, and the inner bearing locknut, and then pull the hub/rotor assembly off (caliper removed of course). From there 6 nuts hold the spindle onto the knuckle, remove the 6 nuts and the brake backing plate and then the spindle, which can be a pain. After that, grab the axle shaft assembly and pull it out to replace the u-joint.

That's the condensed version of this procedure. There's more detail to it but that's about the jist of it. Plus there are details and torque specs for re-assembling and you should repack the wheel bearings and get new grease seals... etc...