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1993 VSS 4L60E 40 tooth reluctor ring?

dave w

dave w

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I have been asked to help with a Jeep / Chevrolet engine conversion. The Chevrolet engine is a 1993 4.3 V6 TBI that was mated to 4L60E. The wiring harness and ECM / PCM are from a 1993 GM C/K. The Jeep has a Ford T-18 4 speed manual transmission mated to a Dana 300 transfer case. I am wondering what VSS / DRAC options are available for the 1993 ECM / PCM that uses the 40 tooth reluctor ring? Maybe this one? http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_S10-Reluctor-Diff.html

Is the VSS necessary? The speedometer is mechanical gear cable from the Dana 300. The Jeep does not have anti-lock brakes, or curise control.

The 1993 GM C/K ECM / PCM wiring diagram I have does not show a neutral / park input. The 1993 ECM / PCM uses a signal from the brake switch.

Thanks in advance!
dave w
 
I would venture a guess that VSS is required. Definitely for the auto trans applications, as I believe they measure the trans RPM's vs. vehicle speed, on a manual trans application it might not be required.

But I'd still hazard a guess that if the ECM is newer than the '7747, which I am betting this is, VSS was used much like it was on every other GM vehicle.

It would be interesting to look at things in the .bin like knock sensor enable, as in my setup, knock sensor is enabled over 2MPH, so without VSS, it should never work.

Another thought, how did the trans know that it was in 4 low on those setups? If they did that externally (through a shifter switch for instance), there probably wouldn't need to be a VSS output except for antilock.

Check what the ECM is actually "asking" for signal-wise too....if it's still looking for the 2000PPM of earlier (which makes sense if they still used a DRAC instead of internal to the ECM), than your options for getting that signal are greatly increased.
 
dyeager535 said:
It would be interesting to look at things in the .bin like knock sensor enable, as in my setup, knock sensor is enabled over 2MPH, so without VSS, it should never work.

Another thought, how did the trans know that it was in 4 low on those setups?
Click to expand...

The ECM / PCM number is 16168625. I have a .bin (E6 definition) if you want to look at one? I have TurnerPro .xcf if you need?

I think the 4WD VSS was in the t-case?

dave w
 
VSS is absolutely required for a 4l60e!! The VSS is also the output speed sensor for the trans. Without it the PCM has no idea what to do to make it shift and will go into limp mode. The JTR sensor will work but isn't a very good option for a Jeep because of the vulnerable location and the complexity of the install plus the requirement of a low range switch input for the PCM.

I prefer this option:

http://advanceadapters.com/product/2404/%28P/N-716073%29-GM-VSS-Kit.html


You will need to use the 716074 tone ring if you are using the stock 4l60e output shaft.
 
So on a 2WD 4L60E the output sensor would be on the output shaft of the trans, on 4WD they simply move it to the t-case?

Makes sense, just trying to clarify for myself.
 
dyeager535 said:
So on a 2WD 4L60E the output sensor would be on the output shaft of the trans, on 4WD they simply move it to the t-case?

Makes sense, just trying to clarify for myself.
Click to expand...


Yep, that's correct. :thumb: On the 4wd truck there is a switch that tells the pcm the t-case is in low range and adjusts the gear ratio accordingly for correct shift points.
 
bigblock72 said:
VSS is absolutely required for a 4l60e!!
Click to expand...

I agree 100% IF I was to use a 4L60E in the Jeep I would use the OEM VSS!:smile1:

The Jeep will have a Ford T-18 mated to a Dana 300. The engine is a GM 4.3 liter V6 with TBI. The ECM / PCM is 16168625 which is definition file E6. I can look and see if there is something in the E6 constant tables showing 4WD?

I agree 100% the JTR reluctor ring is a bad option for a 4WD. Maybe the only least worst option for the JTR reluctor ring on a 4x4 is on the output yoke of the Dana 300?

dave w

I will investigate if a Dana 300 has some kind of switch to indicate 4Lo.
 
You should be able to see any VSS related stuff in tunerpro on the flags/constants/tables panes on the left. You can also do a "find" (can't recall which menu that is under) which searches all the various entries to see if vehicle speed is mentioned, or 4WD.

Manual trans ECM probably doesn't care about vehicle speed in regards to transmission unless they ran a shift light, but as the TPI stuff integrated the VSS into the IAC, I wouldn't be surprised if the later TBI ECM's did as well.
 
With the manual trans there really isn't much need for a VSS, it'll run fine without it.

I misunderstood what your question was in your first post.:o
 
dyeager535 said:
The HAC should tell you whats going on with VSS.
Click to expand...

I looked at the HAC from Moates.net for the BDKJ E6 definition file.
It looks like to me that selecting manual transmission (TunerPro RT Constants and Scalars) will either enable the 4L60 (700R4) lockup or enable shift lights. The information below is from the HAC. I did not post the entire HAC just enough to show what I found.

MANUAL & 4L60 TRANSMISSION
* (TH700R4)
* SHIFT LIGHT PARAMS
***************************************************
;--------------------------------------------------
; HIGH ET RATIOS FOR
;
; UPPER ENG RPM/TRANS RPM OF A PAIR USED
; ESTABLISH CORRECT GEAR RANGE FOR SPECIFIED GEAR
; TO ESTAB SHIFT LIGHT TRIP POINT
;--------------------------------------------------

;--------------------------------------------------
; TRANSMISSION LOCK UP CALIBRATIONS
;
;--------------------------------------------------
L5148 FCB 140 ; 65 Deg c, LOWR TCC TEMP LMT
L5149 FCB 5 ; 2% TPS HYST FOR COAST 1 & 2

;----------------------
; TCC TPS Un-lk window
;----------------------
L514A FCB 54 ; 21% NEG DIFF TPS UN-LK LMT
L514B FCB 45 ; 17.6% POS DIFF TPS UN-LK LMT
;
L514C FCB 20 ; 2 SEC DLY LOCK DELAY AFER QUALS
L514D FCB 25 ; 2.5 SEC COAST DELAY

;---------------------------
; TCC LK/UN LK THRESH PAIRS
;---------------------------
L514E FCB 82 ; 82 MPH, TCC LK/UN LK UPPER THRESH
L514F FCB 79 ; 79 MPH, TCC LK/UN LK LOWER THRESH
L5150 FCB 0 ; 0 RPM, TCC LK/UN LK LOWER THRESH
L5151 FCB 0 ; 0 RPM, TCC LK/UN LK UPPER THRESH
;-------------------------


;-------------------------
; TCC RD SPD LMTS PAIRS
;-------------------------
L5152 FCB 30 ; 30 MPH UPPER FOR LK
L5153 FCB 28 ; 28 MPH LOWER FOR UN-LK

L5154 FCB 35 ; 35 MPH UPPER FOR LK
L5155 FCB 33 ; 33 MPH LOWER FOR UN-LK
;--------------------------------------------------

I think the bottom line will be the $$$: I'll program an E6 27SF512 chip using my Burn 2 for a 4.3 using manual transmission. I can't find a neutral / park input for the 16168625 ... so I'll try my luck without the VSS ... if I have problems ... I guess I'll throw $$$ at the problem for a VSS.:crazy:

I've also looked at IAC Calibrations ... I'm sure the VSS is there somewhere:eek1:, but I'm not sure.

****************************************************
* IAC CALIBRATION
*
* TYPE $E6 ECM
****************************************************


dave w
 
I've run that same computer on a 350/th400/atlas with zero problems. No idle fluctuation or stalling issues whatsoever. I wouldn't worry at all about a VSS, just flash in the manual trans bin and have at it. You may have to delete a few codes to keep the engine light off is all.
 
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